ACC levies...to increase again

**Milky** · 26th October 2004, 21:10

Originally Posted by Jim2

We should probably concentrate on not falling off or getting ourselves into the position of being involved in injury accidents.

Come on guys... Think about the number of bins reported on this site. By my reckoning, AT LEAST 50% are due to riders not remembering what Jim2 states. Maybe if we all tried our best to ride within our ability on the road, and saved the balls out shit for the track, both insurance and ACC premiums would be a hell of a lot less. I know that this may rankle some here who like to ride fast, but think about the situation YOU are creating for yourself before waxing lyrical about it being the car drivers fault...

**Pwalo** · 27th October 2004, 10:15

Originally Posted by Milky

Come on guys... Think about the number of bins reported on this site. By my reckoning, AT LEAST 50% are due to riders not remembering what Jim2 states. Maybe if we all tried our best to ride within our ability on the road, and saved the balls out shit for the track, both insurance and ACC premiums would be a hell of a lot less. I know that this may rankle some here who like to ride fast, but think about the situation YOU are creating for yourself before waxing lyrical about it being the car drivers fault...

I think Jim and Milky have a point. We can be our own worst enemies.

The problem that I have with ACC is that ACC operates on a no blame basis, so I can't see how they can differentiate between groups (ie bikers, drivers, rugby players etc).

Why should any one group, in this case us, be singled out for extra payment over any other if ACC is really a no blame system? And if it isn't how come other groups (bicyclists, pedestrians etc) avoid extra payments?

Cheeky of them to admit that m/cyclist use less petrol and therefore need to be targeted differently to other road users.

Be careful out there boys and girls.

**Mongoose** · 27th October 2004, 10:27

Originally Posted by sAsLEX

how about ACC on horses?? they tend to hurt themselves just as much as people or Push bikes and everything else that people hurt themselve on these days. A levy on glass tables/ showers and ladders would also be appropriate??

As I said up there, in their own words the administaration makes it hard to target other high risk activities, its easy with bike rego

**Dodgyiti** · 27th October 2004, 10:41

The rising costs of oil/petrol are the best thing to hit the planet.
And now we get further penalised by trying to be environmentally friendly in our choice of transport.
The people that require further taxing are those who travel on our already congested m/ways with one person in a big V8, let them pay, they must already have too much money to be able to do that.
And I have mentioned this before, but here goes again- stop binnin it you lot !

Heh Heh Heh

**Deano** · 27th October 2004, 11:35

Originally Posted by Pwalo

I think Jim and Milky have a point. We can be our own worst enemies.

Originally Posted by Milky

Come on guys... Think about the number of bins reported on this site. By my reckoning, AT LEAST 50% are due to riders not remembering what Jim2 states.

Ive checked in with LTSA for statistics over where the blame lies for motorcycle crashes. May take up to a week for a response though - fark knows why it should take that long. The twats are probably too busy scheming ways of taking money off us, or patting themselves on the back for a lower road toll on Labour Weekend.

I was always under the impression that about 75% of crashes were not the fault of the motorcyclist.

If that is true, then its rank that we get hit with the increased levy.

**Coldkiwi** · 27th October 2004, 11:36

...so the real message from ACC is that we should use more petrol to pay less?
Wait - whats that over there? A 10 gallon hat with 'I Love Dubya" on it? So much for clean green NZ!

**James Deuce** · 27th October 2004, 11:56

Originally Posted by Deano

Ive checked in with LTSA for statistics over where the blame lies for motorcycle crashes. May take up to a week for a response though - fark knows why it should take that long. The twats are probably too busy scheming ways of taking money off us, or patting themselves on the back for a lower road toll on Labour Weekend.

I was always under the impression that about 75% of crashes were not the fault of the motorcyclist.

If that is true, then its rank that we get hit with the increased levy.

ACC is a no fault organisation. Irrespective of the cause of your injuries, their job is to ensure your eventual rehabilitation.

Motorcyclists cost more to repair, according to stats from many countries, not just NZ, so we pay more.

You will struggle to find an LTSA, ACC, or NZ Stats analyst that has the balls to attribute blame in MVAs. Bear in mind that a good chunk of Motorcycle accidents are single vehicle, i.e. rider error. You'll see that reflected in the stats you get back, and I believe you see that trend reflected in the "bins" reflected on this site. Maybe 1 in 10 KB bins involve another vehicle.

**James Deuce** · 27th October 2004, 12:00

Originally Posted by Coldkiwi

...so the real message from ACC is that we should use more petrol to pay less?
Wait - whats that over there? A 10 gallon hat with 'I Love Dubya" on it? So much for clean green NZ!

There's no point arguing with stupid people CK. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Change the Government next election. Make the unfairness of the ACC levies an issue with your local MP as well as Deano's plan. Make it a public opinion/votes issue.

**Pwalo** · 27th October 2004, 12:02

Originally Posted by Coldkiwi

...so the real message from ACC is that we should use more petrol to pay less?
Wait - whats that over there? A 10 gallon hat with 'I Love Dubya" on it? So much for clean green NZ!

You got it mate. Bizarre. We'll penalise because you don't use as much of something - a sort of non consumption tax.

**Ghost Lemur** · 27th October 2004, 12:28

Originally Posted by Jim2

There's no point arguing with stupid people CK. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Change the Government next election. Make the unfairness of the ACC levies an issue with your local MP as well as Deano's plan. Make it a public opinion/votes issue.

You're forgetting, governments may change, but bureaucrats always remain the same.

As for the number of bins, generally the cost related aspect of biker-bins is minimal to nothing compared to the cost of car vs bike. Don't believe me just go though all the recent bins and see just how few actually resulted in injuries. So it still doesn't sit. But it wont change either, like speeders we are an easy target to apportion blame on.

**rodgerd** · 27th October 2004, 12:35

Originally Posted by Deano

Bikers are being singled out (again) "because they use less fuel than cars and had a high rate of accidents".

We all know that most bike accidents are the fault of another driver so how the hell can they keep raising that as an argument ?

ACC is no-fault. User pays. You use an ambulence, it goes back into our levvies.
We do know this, do we? Most of the overseas studies (Hurt report et al) suggest a huge proportion of motorcycle crashes are people twatting themselves on corners and the like in single-vehicle crashes.

On the second point, you might want to reflect on it next time you hear someone having a giggle about chucking their bike down the road while they're riding like it's a track day and give them a slap on the back of the head.

Originally Posted by Deano

And, isn't less fuel consumption = less pollution a good thing ?

I doubt the Minister for the Environment would be too impressed by that statement.

That bit's just fucking wierd, I agree. I guess we need to start registering pushbikes, too.

**rodgerd** · 27th October 2004, 12:38

Originally Posted by Milky

Come on guys... Think about the number of bins reported on this site. By my reckoning, AT LEAST 50% are due to riders not remembering what Jim2 states. Maybe if we all tried our best to ride within our ability on the road, and saved the balls out shit for the track, both insurance and ACC premiums would be a hell of a lot less. I know that this may rankle some here who like to ride fast, but think about the situation YOU are creating for yourself before waxing lyrical about it being the car drivers fault...

You're right, but you aren't going to win too many friends.

**rodgerd** · 27th October 2004, 12:40

Originally Posted by Pwalo

The problem that I have with ACC is that ACC operates on a no blame basis, so I can't see how they can differentiate between groups (ie bikers, drivers, rugby players etc).

It operates on a cost basis. So if an ambulence is dispatched to a crash, the cost is accrued against the parties involved, and gets fed into the costs for the types. If you break your neck playing rugby, it gets allocated to the costs for rugby players.

What does stink, of course, is that lots of costs from many of these pools never get recovered, eg there's nothing for pushbike riders.

**dhunt** · 27th October 2004, 12:40

Now if there was a way that we could pay one lot of ACC for multiple vehicles it wouldn't be too bad. It's not as if you can ride/drive more than one thing at once.