ACC levies...to increase again

[rodgerd]

I have amended my letter accordingly, but still suggesting 50/50 is not evidence enough to make motorcyclists pay higher levies.

The levies are less about fault and more about cost. Even when the car driver is at fault, it will still typically cost a lot more to deal with a rider involved in a crash.

[Deano]

The cost of injuries for motorcyclists is MUCH higher overall and proportionally greater than for any other motor vehicle user of the ACC system. It does sit. If you are injured in an injury bike accident it usually results in fractures, which are expensive to treat and rehabilitate, soft tissue injuries which are even more expensive and complex to treat, and organ damage which no one wants. Yes there are a large number of non-injury or minor injury bins, but they still get added to the stats if police or insurance are involved, and it is all just grist to the mill for legislation that hurts us motorcyclists, and anti-motorcycling groups in general.
.

The levies are less about fault and more about cost. Even when the car driver is at fault, it will still typically cost a lot more to deal with a rider involved in a crash.

On that basis, why don't small car owners or those that don't fare as well in crash tests pay higher levies.

Surely in a mini vs falcon accident the mini occupants are going to be worse off. How about 4wd with bullbars - should the higher levy be paid by the vehicle owner that is going to do more damage, thus causing the injuries ?

[James Deuce]

On that basis, why don't small car owners or those that don't fare as well in crash tests pay higher levies.

Surely in a mini vs falcon accident the mini occupants are going to be worse off. How about 4wd with bullbars - should the higher levy be paid by the vehicle owner that is going to do more damage, thus causing the injuries ?

But more often not as badly off as the rider in a bike vs Falcon accident.

You're preaching to the converted Deano. The levy system doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.

The purpose of ACC is not to apportion blame, but to rehabilitate. They report their costs on that basis. Motorcyclists proportionally cost ACC more than any other group of motorists. That is an incontrovertible fact you cannot escape when discussing this issue.

If you want a comprehensive revamp of the ACC levy system you will have to come up with a submission that makes better sense than the current system. Despite most people's opinion of Politicians and Government, you may be surprised at how much good stuff is contained in ACC compared to a system without a no fault insurance scheme.

Motorcyclists are our own worst enemies. Our public image is poor thanks to outdated images of motorcycle gangs, and the single biggest contributor to our bad image is the roaring up behind a vehicle with a family on board and then making a seemingly stupid looking overtaking manoeuvre. Remember most non-motorcyclists have no perception of the performance envelope available to even a 250cc single.

ACC finds it extremely easy to levy more from motorcyclists thanks to the lack of public and government support for motorcycling as transport, hobby, and sport.

BRONZ (as just one example of a NZ motocycling "organisation") should be sending press releases to every form of media imaginable from TV stations to Bloggers every time there is a charity event organised by motorcycling. Instead we have a toy run, do some good for the community and then don't tell people that we did it. We sit back justifiably feeling good about ourselves, but the news of our actions doesn't extend beyond the recipients. If it sounds lacking in humility, well it is. But it is how public opinion is shaped. Without the backing of a significant chunk of the population the unfairness of the current levy raise will never be apparent.

We've got a massive opportunity available at the moment. The Baby Boomers are getting back into bikes in huge numbers and they are of an age to be influential in setting public policy. Perhaps they need to escape the trappings of the "Me" generation, and the general attitude of "Who gives a F__k so long as it doesn't affect me", and help establish some measured and logic based approaches to government to highlight the benefits of motorcycles and to discuss ways of spinning image issues for motorcyclists in a more positive light. I don't think they understand the tyranny of population bias that they hold over anyone born after 1964, but the government sure does. They'll be controlling the next 4-5 elections, so we need to get them onside - Hitcher this is a job for you buddy!

The Greenies should be praising us for our efficient and congestion beating transport. Instead we're going to get charged more at the pump because we use less. I'm going to follow the wife down to the gas station when she fills up the car and then fill up the bike from the same pump without replacing the nozzle. Let's see the gresy herbert gas station attendant figure that one out.

[Ms Piggy]

Hey Deano,
I just edited your letter a bit and sent it off in an email to Ruth Dyson.
If anyone else wants to do so her email address is: rdyson@ministers.govt.nz
I got it form the Labour Party website www.labour.org.nz

I also added that I think they should be penalising all those 4WD drivers that cause a lot more congestion and pollution than motorcyclists - of couse I know thats not everyone elses view but being a townie I hate all the bloody 4WD's round Wgtn used as an everyday vehicle.

Cheers Cathy

[cycosis]

I'm going to follow the wife down to the gas station when she fills up the car and then fill up the bike from the same pump without replacing the nozzle. Let's see the gresy herbert gas station attendant figure that one out.

I think the petrol levy will be a flat rate for all vehicles. Pity, as I would fill up a tin "for the lawnmower" as often as possible....actually that begs the question...why do we pay a motorist levy on fuel for the lawnmower and weedeater?

Not a perfect system by any means, but I guess few are. Those lucky enough to own more than one bike are paying for three registrations, when they are most likely only riding one at any one time.

(p.s. actually Deano here - Im at Cycosis's getting a few riding tips.)

[James Deuce]

I think the petrol levy will be a flat rate for all vehicles. Pity, as I would fill up a tin "for the lawnmower" as often as possible....actually that begs the question...why do we pay a motorist levy on fuel for the lawnmower and weedeater?

Not a perfect system by any means, but I guess few are. Those lucky enough to own more than one bike are paying for three registrations, when they are most likely only riding one at any one time.

(p.s. actually Deano here - Im at Cycosis's getting a few riding tips.)

Ahh I see.

I misread the legislation to say that we were going to get charged more tax because we use less petrol, by about 0.5 cent a litre. Hope I'm wrong!

[NC]

I'm still not going to drive a cage!

[sAsLEX]

I think the petrol levy will be a flat rate for all vehicles. Pity, as I would fill up a tin "for the lawnmower" as often as possible....actually that begs the question...why do we pay a motorist levy on fuel for the lawnmower and weedeater?

(p.s. actually Deano here - Im at Cycosis's getting a few riding tips.)

You can get petrol minus the Tax for the like of farmers for use in their four wheelers etc but not sure on the logistics etc or this could be another urban myth

[rodgerd]

On that basis, why don't small car owners or those that don't fare as well in crash tests pay higher levies.

It's a legitimate question, and I wouldn't complain if the ACC levy were tied into something like EU safety ratings, as it happens. I imaging the ACC/LTSA response would be to put that in the too hard basket.

Mind you, it always pays to be careful what you wish for. I'm willling to bet if the same were carried through to bikes, I'd do better (since I ride a small displacement standard), but 600 and 1000 sports bikes would get real expensive real fast...

Surely in a mini vs falcon accident the mini occupants are going to be worse off.

You might think so, but I recall seeing (and posting here) comparisons showing modern minis doing better than many Remuera Tractors!

[rodgerd]

Ahh I see.

I misread the legislation to say that we were going to get charged more tax because we use less petrol, by about 0.5 cent a litre. Hope I'm wrong!

Re-reading it, I'm reading that as the fact that because accidents are a function of mileage covered, and because petrol used by bikes is so low, they think they need to jack up the flat rego cost to cover a gap in what riders are charged.

[bevsta]

Hi all,
Have just read all the thread and written another letter to those hotshots over in the beehive to express my concerns.
First of all I think it is outrageous that we are facing more fees. One of the biggest draw-cards to becoming a biker (apart from being able to associate with all the cool Kiwi biker people) is the low ongoing costs. Sure it might cost a bit to get your licence, buy a bike and get all the gears but from then on it is suppose to be low petrol bills, no parking fees and generally minimal cost. So yea I made it clear that the govt would face strong opposition if this goes through.
I understand the ACC point of view that in a lot of accidents involving motorcyclists they end up footing bodily repair bills. However, as has been mentioned we do not cause a lot of the accidents we are in and I'd also like to highlight the fact that we all wear helmets while there are still a number of twats who won't wear a seatbelt! As for the fuel cost it is rediculas that we get singled out in a time when across the board every consumer is feeling the effect of rising global oil prices. I'd also like to point out (and I didn't directly do this in my letter to MPs) that New Zealand is going in the wrong direction in terms of forms of transport. This has been shown most recently with the axing of the Northener train service. We should be embracing the means of transport which have a lesser impact on the environment (and the pocket)- motorbike, electric train/bus.
Those views go quite a long way but with increases of 5% and 13% for ACC and fuel levies respectively I think it is necessary becasue who wants to pay more?!? I say protest, they will listen, the election isn't far away and every issue counts, so I'd be there. I've done my letter, also carboned a copy to the transport minister and I'd encourage others to do one also. Feel free to use mine, I've attached it, just don't forget to update your details at the top and bottom!

RidE oN

[rodgerd]

I understand the ACC point of view that in a lot of accidents involving motorcyclists they end up footing bodily repair bills. However, as has been mentioned we do not cause a lot of the accidents we are in and

Except if you read upthread it turns out we do, according to the numbers.

[Midnight 82]

Im in lets get it happening yep lets get so many bikes together that we do block up the highway into wellington just from riding down there.

[scumdog]

Jim2, what is your thought re the scenario I posted about ACC levy from two cages involved in a head-on, each with 4 passengers who have not contributed anything in the way of levies, - versus the m/c crashing and only capable of carrying one passenger? - but whose rider has paid a bigger ACC levy thanb either of the cage owners?

[Ms Piggy]

I've had a "reply" to my email:

Dear Ms Agnew

Thank you for your letter of October 30, 2004 addressed to Hon Ruth Dyson,
Minister for ACC, regarding your ACC levies and your dealings with the
Corporation.

Your letter has been placed before the Minister for her consideration. She
will provide you with her personal response as soon as possible.

Regards

Brendan Gage
ACC Private Secretary
Office of Hon Ruth Dyson
Parliament Buildings
WELLINGTON

I had one previously just confirming receipt of it but, this means it in a pile! Woo hoo!