Fired/removed

[Pussy]

There is nothing stopping him from still giving technical advice

Provided it's sound advice!!

[Qkkid]

This is really not that difficult an issue.

When people voluntarily spend a lot of time on something it is usually a good indication that they value it. It may be "just the Internet" and "not as important as going for a ride", but still relatively valuable. Rep points and post counts and other such obviously silly measures serve to reinforce people's sense of attachment to a forum such as this, which increases the value it has for them. As a very wise former manager of mine once said, "People just want to belong". Looking at Frosty's original posting, he clearly feels aggrieved, and has lost something he values.

Bikers and a curious lot. On the one hand we have this rebel-without-a-cause, I-don't-need-anything-but-a-good-road independence, but on the other hand we're under siege (cagers trying to kill us, govt valuing our lives at zero, family and friends calling us temporary NZers, etc) so we kinda (maybe just a little bit) like being part of a community. We like group rides, getting together at a mates house to work on a mechanical problem, rallies... etc. And thus we form closer relationships than, say, model-aircraft collecting groups - so have a higher level of empathy when one of us is mistreated. (Have a look at Str8 Jackets post about nearly being mugged - there were people here offering vigilante justice within 30 mins!). So those of us who like and respect Frosty (which seems to be a well deservedly large number) share some of his feeling of being aggrieved.

Having mods is arguably a necessary evil for a large community - because some people are just tossers - but heavy-handed, inscrutable, generally unreasonable moderation (they call it moderation for a reason, remember) creates division, makes us feel like we don't belong, that there are another group we need to rally and defend against - and the worst thing is they are us, fellow bikers. Therefore attacks on mods are more vicious than they would be toward outsiders. The mods, therefore, have to do extra work to control this effect, and minimise the division between the mods and the proles, to make sure they aren't the enemy in the eyes of the 99% of reasonable people here.

If not? Well, there is a risk here, that has been pointed out by others, of the site becoming so divided by driving away valued and valuable contributors, that it crumbles to a shadow of it's former glory. What controls get put in place to avoid this are for SpankMe to determine, if he even wants to - he's the site god after all - but that doesn't mean he'll get it right, as far as the majority (or even a large minority) are concerned, which will lead to more defections. And more "brand dilution" for KB as alternative sites become more credible in the collective mindspace. It's happened before, over and over, shows, sites and groups "jumping the shark". Internet success is hard to do, and network effects are hard to predict, but the best outcome is generally achieved with the fewest, clearest and most reasonable rules. But that's a separate discussion.

The Frosty being fired issue is now in the public arena (along with the whole bike sale dispute thread). Leaving it undiscussed and behind closed doors is indeed an option, but will just reinforce the issues above and reduce the value many people attach to KB. I wouldn't choose that path, if it were up to me.

Now this is a very good post green bling to you sir Now lets see if the mod reads this and also i may say HER_B4 because she is sounding a little to much like the mods There is a very big difference between owning a buisness and running a buisness and from life experience when there is alot of "money"as a example at stake,you think very carefully about the repercussions from the decisions. when you are just running or workin for someone you only think about your world till something happens. Due to what has happened people are shocked ,and rightly so So come on KICKAHA the answer please show us the money.

[scumdog]

Due to what has happened people are shocked ,and rightly so

So what HAS happened eh??

[Pixie]

In a few years they'll just sit in a circle and moderate each other

[Mom]

So what HAS happened eh??

Thats what we all want to know!

[Jorja]

Isn't that because Frosty hasn't mentioned it? I don't remember him announcing any such thing; are you doing so for him now?

Richard

It was stated in the very first post of this thread. Unfortunately it has since been moderfied serveral times. There has been one or two other posts on here asking about it but right now everything is very up in the air.

You will note however that trackday 7 is no longer listed on his posts

[James Deuce]

Now this is a very good post green bling to you sir Now lets see if the mod reads this and also i may say HERB4 because she is sounding a little to much like the mods There is a very big difference between owning a buisness and running a buisness and from life experience when there is alot of "money"as a example at stake,you think very carefully about the repercussions. when you are just running or workin for someone you only think about your world till something happens. Due to what has happened people are shocked ,and rightly so So come on KICKAHA the answer please show us the money.

She is a Mod. You guys know you can see who the Mods are, right?

How about moving the thing out of the public arena until you have some facts to post because you KB guys & gals are crushing my monthly bandwidth allowance with hyperbole, innuendo, and downright lies.

[Ixion]

And FFS!! An Auckland moderator?? What the hell are you people on? Is there something ultra ‘spechal’ about Auckland that the rest of us in NZ don’t know about and can’t comprehend? (Aside from the parochial arrogance portrayed by many that nothing actually exists below the Bombays?)

Pray tell us what that is, and what the hell where one lives should decide whether one can understand, support and translate the site rules to the best of their abilities?

Yes, there is actually. There are quite a lot of things about biking in Auckland that are different to the rest of the country . Mainly because of its size, so some of them are shared to a lesser degree by the other major cities. But certainly Auckland does have special issues.

I can mention motorways ; cheescutters; lanesplitting; traffic volumes generally; parking. Some of these are simply meaningless to a lot of the country (how many miles of motorway in Invercargill ? ) others have so much greater an impact in Auckland that they take on a different quality (lanesplitting may exist in Dunedin, but it's a way of life in Auckland).

And as KB becomes more and more southern focused the absence of interest by the mods and Heaven Born in non-southern issues is more and more noticeable. The cheescutter campaign is an excellent exammple. It's a matter of very great importance to Aucklanders , because that's where the vast majority of cheescutters are. Yes, other areas have put their shoulder to the wheel, but Auckland is where it hurts. And, unsurprisingly the campaign was started by Mr Spankme, an Aucklander. And equally unsurprisingly, none of the rest of the mods or Heaven Born have shown the slightest interest. And in some cases have actively worked against it. So that's one example of where not having any Auckland representation is an issue.

KB claims to be the "site for all New Zealand Motorcyclists". Not just those south of the Bombays. I don't imply that the geographic thing is deliberate. It's a side effect of the fatc that KB is becoming a dynastic property, controlled by a very small clique , who fill any vacancies with people connected with themselves. As the leaders of the clique are from Christchurch, naturally over time there is a southward pull.

And the result is likely to be that northerners will , as Mr Rainman wisely says, vote with their feet. It hasn't happened yet, at present the northern response is to pay less attention to KB, to contribute less. A quick login once every few days , and then off again. Illustrated by the recent KB birthday celebation thing, where only six Aucklanders turned up. The message is "KB doesn't think we're of any relevance, why should we think KB is of any relevance?". And sooner or later an alternative sand pit WILL open up and there will be a quite sudden mass exodus

[Qkkid]

She is a Mod. You guys know you can see who the Mods are, right?

How about moving the thing out of the public arena until you have some facts to post because you KB guys & gals are crushing my monthly bandwidth allowance with hyperbole, innuendo, and downright lies.

Aha makes sense around 400 posts and HER_B4 a mod very interesting I am sorry i cant give out anymore greenies as i have used my limit 4 today

[MVnut]

Thats what we all want to know!

Well it's not about the sale of the bike

[Jantar]

....And as KB becomes more and more southern focused the absence of interest by the mods and Heaven Born in non-southern issues is more and more noticeable. The cheescutter campaign is an excellent exammple. It's a matter of very great importance to Aucklanders , because that's where the vast majority of cheescutters are. Yes, other areas have put their shoulder to the wheel, but Auckland is where it hurts. And, unsurprisingly the campaign was started by Mr Spankme, an Aucklander. And equally unsurprisingly, none of the rest of the mods or Heaven Born have shown the slightest interest. And in some cases have actively worked against it. So that's one example of where not having any Auckland representation is an issue....

This is a rather disingenious claim. I'm sorry if the southern mods didn't join in the protest rides, unfortunately, this one was still in Australia and unable to ride. However the CCs are no less of an issue down here than they are in Auckland. There are moke kms of CCs between Alexandra and Queenstown than there are on the whole of the Auckland motorways. However a protest ride of 4 KBers isn't as likely to have an impact.

We are making our feelings known to the powers that be and actively objecting to them. Please tell me (privately if you wish) about any mods actively working against the campaign.

[pritch]

She is a Mod. You guys know you can see who the Mods are, right?

In a word, no!

Until now I wasn't interested, they did their work for bugger-all but whatever satisfaction it gave them.

They haven't bothered me and (so far) I don't seem to bother them too much.

Suddenly though it does seem more relevant.

It occurs to me that moderators are a bit like union shop stewards. The best ones are the ones who don't really want the position. Beware the ones who actually want the job...

[speights_bud]

As stated earlier, this is a public Forum, which therefore (should) allow people to have their own opinions.

I wasn't going to post in this thread, but it would appear that the public are not going to hear the full story, which , considering that as this appears to be a conflict between the mods/staff of the site, the public may not be entitled to hear so. However by removing posts the people will just want to know more.

I'm leaving it at that from what i understand of things,

You're a good man Frosty, keep up the good work

[chanceyy]

i would also like for them to be unknown... we would know they are there, but not where, when or who.

ive only met one, chanceyy, and though i like her, and would ride with her any day of the week, i did feel a tad tense simply due to her being a mod. i expected online lives to cross into offline, and didnt want to step out of line. i feel i would have been a whole heap more relaxed if i didnt know she was a mod.

no need to be tense around me Sun .. off the web I am just another person .. pretty relaxed & easygoing .. a bit like my mod style, anything that happens off site can not reflect onsite .. & it doesn't for me .. my own opinions on ppl are just that .. & modding calls for ppl to be non judgmental & trying to understand what others are meaning by the written word. Is a bit of a tiff sparring between friends or is it crap that needs to be handled so it does not spew over into rides etc .. when ppl talk face to face you have the ability to read body language .. with the written word you have to try & determine in which vein the writer was posting ..

the only modding I do is on the web, & yes some ppl delight in pretending to be something they generally are not in real life .. put it into perspective .. membership of approx 8-9000 ppl & yet its the same 1-2 dozen who feel like rules do not apply to them, Mods also have to abide by rules .. we are not god like just trying to do the job Spank has asked of us ..

[Colapop]

I'm tense around Chanceyy... only coz that's the best way to deliver a hug!