Seat bag problem.... and Motormail - Comments welcome

[James Deuce]

Would anyone here talk face to face in the same tone that's often used under the protection of a nom de net.
Rarely I'd say
Lou

Yes, and frequently do when faced with pig headed stupidity.

OF course the definition is based on my own perception which as everyone knows seems to be soemwhat mistaken.

Apparently it's OK to threaten legal action aaginst a retailer for selling a person a product whihc they then use incorectly. AS for Paul's "tone" I assure you that most people here have utterly misread it. He is one of the few people I know who can use those words in that context and not leave you feeling completely worthless.

CSL - I'd sympathise if Zapf admitted he screwed up. To blame Motomail is surreal.

[Paul in NZ]

No... your an arsehole thats what you are...

Come on ohnestly he admitted he was a newbie to bikes... just like me... the least they can do if give him a refund... and they should by law because "he goods not fitting the purpose for which they were bought"

Thats true... I work in a retail store and we get returns like although they arent often but we still get a few a month...

Cmon just take it easy on the guy instead of being all macho im the big man here im bigger and better than you because i know more about bikes blah blah blah mwaaaah mwaaaah i want attention

...

I'm an arsehole? Why? Because I have an opinion thats different to yours? Pretty quick with the old name callin' there Frankie! I'll freely admit I can be a right arsehole and an aquired taste but I'm not calling people names...

The story told here, is not always what happened there! WE WERE NOT THERE! I'll bet if Motomail had seen a chance to sell a roll of scuff stuff they would have taken it!

How were the goods not fitting the purpose? Did the bag fail? Did a zipper break? Did it fall off? Nope.... The person that fitted it failed to take reasonable precautions... It's not Motomails fault that Zapf is a new rider. In fact it sounds like they went to a bit of trouble explaining about panniers rubbing etc, if he could not make the connections....

I'm being all macho? Bwahahahah! Big man??? Oh please! (I'll have to tell Vicki!) I know more about bikes?????? Eh???? You on pills or something?? Whats this got to do with bikes? I freely admit I know stuff all about modern bikes but I have my share of common sense! Anything that contacts your paint, ANY paint will wear through it eventually!! Be it your car, your bike or your jeans on the gas tank.
If you stumble through life not observing things like scuff stuff stuck to panel work etc without asking 'wots that there for?' then you are askin' for it!

For the record! I do sympathise! It's a shitty thing to have happened and yes it could have been prevented and ask anyone, I would be first in line to help if I could but!!!! First time I me Quasi, about the second thing I said was 'I thing your bungee strap is wearing your paint mate". BUT!!! Responsibility lays with the owner and user!!

It's a bloody motorbike! Careless people die on motorcycles really fast because they expect other people to take care of everything!! You better start learning fast from looking at what other people (that have survived) do and adopting some of their common sense!

oh.... bother.... I'm too old and tired for this....

Who cares... Alright! Yes I'm an arsehole, sue everyone, it's all their fault.. I tell you what, sue me too because I hurt your feelings and ruined your day and was mean and a big man.............

Hopefully your next of kin can sue the person the knocks you off your bike and kills you because you were too daft to stop and listen to what people are trying to tell you and didn't have the commonsense to join the dots...

And no! I'm not kidding about that and trust me, I won't enjoy it! I love life and I love people but harden up! Shit happens....

[Paul in NZ]

Would anyone here talk face to face in the same tone that's often used under the protection of a nom de net.
Rarely I'd say
Lou

Lou

My full name is in my email which is on this site as well as where I live. 2 seconds with the white pages will find me and I have said nothing here I would not say in court or in person. Ask anyone that knows me!

If people are offended by honesty then why should I back off? I'd be less than honest myself then? If I'm wrong, I appologise! If people are a bit sensitive? This is a bloody motorbike site! Not a tea party for the queen!

Paul N

BTW! I thought your little dig at the opposition was a goodie! As a retailer, Don't tell me you have never been through this sort of thing though!

[Posh Tourer :P]

I think youre being hard, and that there is no cause whatsoever to rant at him. It DOES piss you off when little stuff like that happens. I cursed every day the melted paint on my now-ex EL250 that I quite possibly caused by strapping a plastic water bottle to it and riding five hours in the sun. If I could have blamed someone I woulda. Human nature etc and I do not see any reason to yelp.

Just because it is "Human nature" doesnt mean it is right or Ok. Yes, I would be pissed off if that happened. I'd then say damn that was stupid and go fix it.

The tone of the original post was that he was annoyed it had happened, and that it wasn't his fault. If it had been "damn stupid bag what can I do about it" then it would have been a sympathetic response. With the assertation that Motomail was going to be taken to the small claims court (Yes, its at the bottom of the original post), it got up a few people's noses, mine included. Its an attitude like this that is going to change the face of law in this country to reflect america's and take out all possible means of having fun and taking risks, because everyone will be too scared to provide any facilities for fear of being SUED!!!

[Blakamin]

Lou

My full name is in my email which is on this site as well as where I live. 2 seconds with the white pages will find me and I have said nothing here I would not say in court or in person. Ask anyone that knows me!

If people are offended by honesty then why should I back off? I'd be less than honest myself then? If I'm wrong, I appologise! If people are a bit sensitive? This is a bloody motorbike site! Not a tea party for the queen!

Fuck Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stinger]

No offense zapf, but if you'd come to your friendly, local AMPS store I would have advised you how to avoid that.
Motomail aren't liable, but it shows that there are different degrees of service out there.
PS. feeling well savaged yet?

Although that was a personal plug, it's good to know. I think that sometimes when you're new to something it's impossible to know which questions to ask. Sometimes someone who genuinely knows there product can save a LOT of hassle.

[Posh Tourer :P]

Come on ohnestly he admitted he was a newbie to bikes... just like me... the least they can do if give him a refund... and they should by law because "he goods not fitting the purpose for which they were bought"

Give him a refund because he's a newbie? I like people who are understanding, and I support being nice to newbies, but hell, these guys are actually in business, and have to make money......They arent a charitable institution or an education facility.....

The goods were bought to carry luggage - they did so. I'll bet the manufacturer has no guarantee about not damaging the bike... They'll do their best not to, but cant help it normally, because they are building a generic bag to fit many bikes of all shapes and sizes....

I work in a retail store and we get returns like although they arent often but we still get a few a month...

Just because you get a few doesnt mean that they are justified. I'm sure some of them are, but this one of Zapf's isnt

No... your an arsehole thats what you are...

Cmon just take it easy on the guy instead of being all macho im the big man here im bigger and better than you because i know more about bikes blah blah blah mwaaaah mwaaaah i want attention

ad hominem attacks... the start of most fights - if you are going to argue, do it properly.... Zapf asked for advice about which was the better course, and which was justified. Paul replied with some exasperation, and justified his reply. I'm sure neither Jim, Paul or myself want to attack Zapf, we all just feel strongly about the issue

at the very least you dont have to be so harsh on the fella ae

Perhaps true... But the more you temper your message, the less it gets through. Say what you like, but people remember the favourable bits and skip past the not so favourable bits..... I could be balanced, but I'd prefer to send a clear message first, and have the balance later if it is needed.

[Marknz]

Hey Zapf,

Sorry about the damage to your bike, but unfortunately it's one of those life experiences that your just going to have to learn from.

You weren't to know that if you posted a thread on here saying that you were "just about to use seat bags for the first time and were there any things I should consider?", then all those with the experience would have warned you that you need to put duck/duct? tape on the painted area's that might have been subject to some rubbing and abrasions.

Keep your head up and keep enjoying your ride.

[Posh Tourer :P]

I was dealing with Chris at motormail, and he well knows that i have been there in the last few months inquiring about gear and stuff and I had explained to him I am new to it all. So I went there before the ride and ask for a set of panniers, we tried to fit them on the bike but none will fit, but he did mentioned that the back of the panniers will rub the paint. So that is fine, if I did buy a set of panniers and it rubbed all my paint away I can't complain as "I have been warned"

Ok, so you accept that you had been warned

and YES I am about to loose that few hundred dollars as I am trading up to a SV650S. And I have been told that I havee lost $200 on my trade in value due to that paint damage.

no I don't require special treatment BUT, if they sold me a product that was suppose to fit my bike and my requirement but instead damages something else in the process then they should have warned me about it. I mean, I even had my bike there to see and do a test fit on. And they even showed me how it should fit (but it still stuffed the paint)

Ok so maybe they should have reiterated that you should protect the paint here

and no I am not trying to sue them out of business, I am in retail / consultant business myself and run my own business. But I know if you sold someone something and it stuffs up their business, I am liable for damages.
If some one sold you a set of brake pads that was meant for your bike. It does the job but warped your discs after a hundred k's would you not complain?

If it was the brake pads, and they were intended to fit the bike, then yes. There is a line to be drawn and I think you are on the wrong side of it.

And refering to an earlier discussion on here before about port holes, if you hit a port hole and it bents your rim did you know that the council is liable for damages? (you have to prove it of course) Because they provide a service / goods (roads) and it should be to a reasonable standard and not damage your car / bike. Since you paided your rates.

I would choose not to exercise that right, because I know exactly how hard it is to proof a road against potholes, and I understand that its practically impossible to expect them to maintain a road free of potholes, even if the law states that they should.
The law is occasionally an ass....

Oh and I didn't want to do anything nasty like taking someone to small claims, I went in there today to tell them that I am not happy with what happened and gave them a chance to explain it to me and so that we can resolve it nicely.
I mean I like having good relationships with bike shops or any shops for that matter, but if they won't stand behind what they sell and it has caused damage then I take up the issue for the sake of it.

From what I read, you haven't been trying to resolve it nicely - threats of small claims and demanding a refund dont sound nice to me.
Ask them what they think they could do to help repair the damage - if you were originally nice, they may offer cheaper paint/help you get paint repair etc...

Whose sake are you taking the case up for? I certainly hope you arent claiming my support.... "For the sake of it" sounds like a bad reason to me - are you trying to get them to stand behind their product? If they already are - and some of us seem to think they are being reasonable, then you aren't taking it up for any reason apart from personal satisfaction.

What exactly is your reason? I dont think you have the justification to try and make them stand behind their product to the extent that you want them to.

[Posh Tourer :P]

duck/duct? tape

Duct (From use on air conditioning ducts), significantly different from electrical tape....

[FROSTY:Me]

Silly question --But dont trowover bags ALWAYS rub on exposed paintwork.
Its been a long time since I used bags but Im sure I remember that being the case.

[Jackrat]

No offense zapf, but if you'd come to your friendly, local AMPS store I would have advised you how to avoid that.
Motomail aren't liable, but it shows that there are different degrees of service out there.
PS. feeling well savaged yet?

Friendly AMPS store?????????????
Yeah right,the people that dropped my sporty, putting a dirty great gouge in the left side engine cover,then lied thru' their teeth about it.
AMPS,should be very carefull about taking cheap shots at other dealers.
Degrees of service

[HanaBelle]

No you're supporting the mentality that everything bad that happens to an individual is not their responsibility.

...you couldnt be more wrong about me...I believe, for example, that PaulN is responsible for the emotional tone of his posts, good guy identity notwithstanding (and from what Ive seen hes an excellent guy). I believe you are responsible for the buddy defence stance you took and for recognising it thusly instead of claiming moral highground, and, this morning I am tempted to hold you responsible for the curdling of my coffee along with my usually sunshiny personality, but I wont, because (a) I have liked you thus far (b) its up to me how I choose to respond to another human being or a human circumstance complete with multiple flaws...and in this case, as is my TRUE philosophy, I CHOOSE to stay calm and acknowledge my choices. So there. Phhht.

Its time to go for a ride. The weather is gonna hold, the DVDs are late being returned and the alternative is an afternoon of housework and laundry...I am taking responsibility for avoiding my responsibilities and aware I will have no one else to blame when Im jammin clothes into the dryer at 7am on Monday cos I need to wear em at 8. I WILL enjoy the ride. I will adore the throb of torque and the g-force pushing back and the spiritual sound of Wild Thing a-poundin in mah chest...I will be careful at roundabouts and assume all people in cars want to kill me, personally, and I will find my way to the backroad wherein none of them can be found and theres just me, my beloved bike, and a thousand small choices of self empowerment I get to make to ensure we, SheVulcan and I, get home together grinning sloppily like Odie from the Garfield cartoon.

Hope you have a ride today, too.

HB

[James Deuce]

...you couldnt be more wrong about me...I believe, for example, that PaulN is responsible for the emotional tone of his posts, good guy identity notwithstanding (and from what Ive seen hes an excellent guy). I believe you are responsible for the buddy defence stance you took and for recognising it thusly instead of claiming moral highground, and, this morning I am tempted to hold you responsible for the curdling of my coffee along with my usually sunshiny personality, but I wont, because (a) I have liked you thus far (b) its up to me how I choose to respond to another human being or a human circumstance complete with multiple flaws...and in this case, as is my TRUE philosophy, I CHOOSE to stay calm and acknowledge my choices. So there. Phhht.


HB

I'll stick up for Paul as much as I want. I don't actually give a rat's banana what anyone thinks about me, but when someone decides that a mate of mine is being harsh when he's being honest, then despite the fact he doesn't need it, I'll "buddy buddy" as much as I want. If more newbs like Zapf actually listened to people like Paul who know their shiznit, and stopped running to mummy every time they skinned their knee, we might have a lot more live motorcyclists on the road.

[Frankie]

i didnt really read much of the thread so took it a bit outa context so yeh sorreh