Seat bag problem.... and Motormail - Comments welcome

[NC]

Jesus!
Your trying to tell me that people your age "have sexual relations" with each other? NOOOOO you lie!!! Lies I tell you, LIES!!!

Sorry... It runs in the family, ask my 83 year old fathers girlfriend....

Can't think of a more sexual relation than that....

Damn that Viagra!

[Zapf]

I'll stick up for Paul as much as I want. I don't actually give a rat's banana what anyone thinks about me, but when someone decides that a mate of mine is being harsh when he's being honest, then despite the fact he doesn't need it, I'll "buddy buddy" as much as I want. If more newbs like Zapf actually listened to people like Paul who know their shiznit, and stopped running to mummy every time they skinned their knee, we might have a lot more live motorcyclists on the road.

Newbie to bikes yes, newbie to the road or law no. Have had a nice car dynoed at 244kW @ rear wheels and haven't run anyone or myself off the road for the last 6 years that I have owned it, so I know the road and know my limits and hazards. So please don't sterotype me and put me in pigon hole.

Why am I getting shot at anyway? Yes I am listening.... I thought I asked for comments, and I got some. so that is good.

[Zapf]

Ok, so you accept that you had been warned



Ok so maybe they should have reiterated that you should protect the paint here



If it was the brake pads, and they were intended to fit the bike, then yes. There is a line to be drawn and I think you are on the wrong side of it.



I would choose not to exercise that right, because I know exactly how hard it is to proof a road against potholes, and I understand that its practically impossible to expect them to maintain a road free of potholes, even if the law states that they should.
The law is occasionally an ass....



From what I read, you haven't been trying to resolve it nicely - threats of small claims and demanding a refund dont sound nice to me.
Ask them what they think they could do to help repair the damage - if you were originally nice, they may offer cheaper paint/help you get paint repair etc...

Whose sake are you taking the case up for? I certainly hope you arent claiming my support.... "For the sake of it" sounds like a bad reason to me - are you trying to get them to stand behind their product? If they already are - and some of us seem to think they are being reasonable, then you aren't taking it up for any reason apart from personal satisfaction.

What exactly is your reason? I dont think you have the justification to try and make them stand behind their product to the extent that you want them to.

Posh, read again. I have tried to resolve it nice and calmly. I when there in person and reminded them about the bag that was sold and fitted by them. and then pointed out the paint damage, and anything that they would do to set me right / fair and square. They gave me a number for a paint shop and that it, refused to provide refund for the bag, refused to compensate in any part for the paint damage, refused to acknowledge that the bag had any fault in design or fit what so ever. I was nice and asked nicely, but I got given the long walk around and reason / excuse for everything, other words a long winded way of saying "no we don't care and have no responsibility although we did recommended that bag for your bike and fitted it"

[peace]

[Zapf]

I'm an arsehole? Why? Because I have an opinion thats different to yours? Pretty quick with the old name callin' there Frankie! I'll freely admit I can be a right arsehole and an aquired taste but I'm not calling people names...

The story told here, is not always what happened there! WE WERE NOT THERE! I'll bet if Motomail had seen a chance to sell a roll of scuff stuff they would have taken it!

How were the goods not fitting the purpose? Did the bag fail? Did a zipper break? Did it fall off? Nope.... The person that fitted it failed to take reasonable precautions... It's not Motomails fault that Zapf is a new rider. In fact it sounds like they went to a bit of trouble explaining about panniers rubbing etc, if he could not make the connections....

I'm being all macho? Bwahahahah! Big man??? Oh please! (I'll have to tell Vicki!) I know more about bikes?????? Eh???? You on pills or something?? Whats this got to do with bikes? I freely admit I know stuff all about modern bikes but I have my share of common sense! Anything that contacts your paint, ANY paint will wear through it eventually!! Be it your car, your bike or your jeans on the gas tank.
If you stumble through life not observing things like scuff stuff stuck to panel work etc without asking 'wots that there for?' then you are askin' for it!

For the record! I do sympathise! It's a shitty thing to have happened and yes it could have been prevented and ask anyone, I would be first in line to help if I could but!!!! First time I me Quasi, about the second thing I said was 'I thing your bungee strap is wearing your paint mate". BUT!!! Responsibility lays with the owner and user!!

It's a bloody motorbike! Careless people die on motorcycles really fast because they expect other people to take care of everything!! You better start learning fast from looking at what other people (that have survived) do and adopting some of their common sense!

oh.... bother.... I'm too old and tired for this....

Who cares... Alright! Yes I'm an arsehole, sue everyone, it's all their fault.. I tell you what, sue me too because I hurt your feelings and ruined your day and was mean and a big man.............

Hopefully your next of kin can sue the person the knocks you off your bike and kills you because you were too daft to stop and listen to what people are trying to tell you and didn't have the commonsense to join the dots...

And no! I'm not kidding about that and trust me, I won't enjoy it! I love life and I love people but harden up! Shit happens....

I have common sense, I walked in there with the budget to buy a good set of givi panniers. I walked out having spend less than 1/2 my budget with a seat bag, sure very happy at that time. Until I found that the product end up costing me more than what I paided for the product doubled. so yes they had a chance to sell me lots and lots of scuff proof and I was listening for the record.

[Zapf]

Whoooooaaaaa! All getting a little bit outta hand here people. Lets bring some peace, love and understanding (and mung beans) back here and all take a deep breath.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh - thats better now isn't it?

Fankie - Paul is definitely no arsehole. I think I can safely say he is a valued member of KB's, with an excellent bike knowledge.

I do, however, sysmpathise with Zapf. As I mentioned earlier I'm a newbie and I would never to think to ask about things like the bag rubbibng bits off my paint work off, although it don't matter on the Bitchin' Mobile.

Zapf the bag did actually serve it's purpose though i.e. to carry your belongings. Yeah it does suck that your paint work got damaged and I think it's unfair that it wasn't pointed out to you that this would happen but, at the end of the day I wouldn't recomend bad mouthing about a business on a public forum and maybe that's why you got the harsh responses you did.

Just want to point out that I am not trying bad mouthing at this stage, I am stating what has happend and its true. I wanted to get a balanced view point from the people, and not hopefully a coloured or clouded one as one can have when in such siturations. and yes I got my result, and got some views that will balance mine.

Oh and I didn't now threaten or tell the business that I'll post it on a public forum or get a mediator (which is small claims) if they didn't do so and so. I have left it to their own device as to how to handle this case, fair and square.

Oh and everyone, please really read up on what small claims courts is. It not sueing someone, its a disputes resolution method when both parties cannot resolve their differences. Where a 3rd party will look at it from a neutral prespective. NO Damages or penelties can be imposed except on the subject / object in question. NO lawyers are involved. So NO you would be footing the bill for lawyers or court fees.

[Zapf]

Ah well, I'll forgive you since you're frustrated.

I wasn't actually providing an opinion on what I thought he should do, just an opinion about his legal case. Which I stand by..... (which is just that he could probably return the bag, not do anything about his bike damage) The CGA is quite heavilly biased towards the consumer. For example If you have a bed that is 15 years old, chances are if it breaks you "Could" take it back.

Given that he now has alternative ways of fitting his bag, i.e with tape to save the paint... why not keep the bag for the next bike. It'll still work for the purpose it was bought for.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but it does pay to know your legal "rights". It's up to you if you use them...

Thanks Stinger

People I am purely talking about it as an topic, I have not threatened anyone or company or fill in any forms or filed any proceedings. Although I reserve the rights to... I was wondering why this thread was getting out of hand, can't you grown ups with so much knowledge & wisdom keep your cool and look at it subjectivelly? ok... just go and have a beer and chill out and forget any of this has happened.

[Zapf]

Ah well, I'll forgive you since you're frustrated.

I wasn't actually providing an opinion on what I thought he should do, just an opinion about his legal case. Which I stand by..... (which is just that he could probably return the bag, not do anything about his bike damage) The CGA is quite heavilly biased towards the consumer. For example If you have a bed that is 15 years old, chances are if it breaks you "Could" take it back.

Given that he now has alternative ways of fitting his bag, i.e with tape to save the paint... why not keep the bag for the next bike. It'll still work for the purpose it was bought for.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but it does pay to know your legal "rights". It's up to you if you use them...

I have also LEARN from this experience, and going to get a hard top box instead. So there is no chance of rubbing the paint now is there?

[wildfire1]

Mmmm........wow , looks like it got a little heated in here.

Heres my 1.98 cents worth (depreciation), please note this is an opinion only - so no name calling, I’m a sensitive individual

1. All of us (at some stage) rely on the opinions of those that are supposed experts in their field. When we are given that advice we have an expectation that it will be right, some times it is, and sometimes it is not

2. You get what you pay for - no this is not a harsh way of saying you were cheap, so you deserved what happened, but even the most naive of us understand when some thing does not sit 100% right, or we feel that things could be different - i.e expected to spend $$$ but it only cost me $.

3. Most people seldom speak up for fear of appearing like a 'dork' for challenging the opinion of a so called expert (i know this because I am both the expert and the dork)- But common sense must prevail above all other ranting

So to finish...and finally get to my point.
Take it on the chin - I don’t think Motomail ever had any intention of causing any harm, the bag does what bags do, and common sense should have prevailed over the fitting of the bag by BOTH parties.
If you really want to get a definitive opinion as to who is right - sure go to the disputes court - BUT you may still never be entirely happy with the verdict anyway.
Purchase the top box with the 'correct' fitting kit for your bike (I love my GIVI one)
Now get on with your life and go and Ride your bike...like you know you wanna.
Good on you for asking the opinions of others......

[Ms Piggy]

Just want to point out that I am not trying bad mouthing at this stage

Hmmmmmmm, sorry Zapf but I have to disagree with ya on that one. The title of your thread is "Seat bag problem.... and Motormail" and then your original post is about Motomail. I just don't think it's a good idea and personally I wouldn't post the name of a business on a public forum, you never know when that will come back and bite you in the butt.

[Jackrat]

I have also LEARN from this experience, and going to get a hard top box instead. So there is no chance of rubbing the paint now is there?

Mate,
If as you say this shop actualy fitted the bag,then yes they should do the rigthie by you and fix the damage.You should of said they fitted it in the first place,that changes the whole deal,they did it,they should fix it.
I based my earlier reply on the infomation you originaly gave,it sounded like you fitted the bag yourself.
As for the top box,let's see how many times you kick the thing getting on an off

[Paul in NZ]

Oh I just love this! Information in dribs and drabs! The most important bits last!

Now you say motomail actually fitted the bag? Since (in my experience) these things are designed to be removeable I'm going to assume you didn't touch it at all from their original fitment?

If they fitted it AND you didn't touch it afterwards then yes they have a case to answer.

If they fitted it AND you did touch it afterwards then no they don't have a case to answer.

Paul N

[Paul in NZ]

I have also LEARN from this experience, and going to get a hard top box instead. So there is no chance of rubbing the paint now is there?

No, but unless it's a factory fitment and you strictly adhere to the load ratings you can damage the frame / paint by stressing parts that were never designed to bear those loads.... If you put a Givi one on they are generally pretty good.

Any luggage on a bike is generally the LAST thing the designer looked at and is more often the work of the devil. Exceptions being proper tourers with integral luggage and even some of them ain't too flash!

Don't bank on any of it being waterproof either.

The lash ups, black plastic rubbish sacks and 100's of bungee cords are all a part of the fun of touring on a bike.

Paul N

[James Deuce]

Newbie to bikes yes, newbie to the road or law no. Have had a nice car dynoed at 244kW @ rear wheels and haven't run anyone or myself off the road for the last 6 years that I have owned it, so I know the road and know my limits and hazards. So please don't sterotype me and put me in pigon hole.

Why am I getting shot at anyway? Yes I am listening.... I thought I asked for comments, and I got some. so that is good.

What has the car got to do with it? You publicly complained about a retail motorcycle outlet and threatened legal action via legal statute. There was no hint that you'd even considered that you might have checked out proper installation procedure or negotiated with Motomail, instead you bad mouthed them in a public forum with incomplete evidence. Given that this is a "written" media, and probably archived you've done yourself no favours.

Despite what you say further down, we DO pay for the SCC, and there are costs involved for the losing party. I think you are being frivolous, you haven't explained yourself well at all, and if you take ANYTHING away from this make sure it is asking how something works BEFORE you spend money on it. If you possibly can, reflect on why it is not always the "best" approach to use the CGA or SCC whenever things go wrong for you. You may have a "right" (actually a privilege) to legal recourse but is it the right thing to do?

[NC]

The lash ups, black plastic rubbish sacks and 100's of bungee cords are all a part of the fun of touring on a bike.

Paul N

And one of those net thingees?

I sorta need to know...

[Stinger]

Hmmmmmmm, sorry Zapf but I have to disagree with ya on that one. The title of your thread is "Seat bag problem.... and Motormail" and then your original post is about Motomail. I just don't think it's a good idea and personally I wouldn't post the name of a business on a public forum, you never know when that will come back and bite you in the butt.

I think that given that he stated what had happened (I thought he did a pretty good job), then including the name of the retailer was a good idea. Most people here didn't think motomail did anything wrong so it doesn't do their name any harm for those people. I think that knowing about these situations is a really good idea.

I have two different shopping strategies. The one where I go and buy something at the cheapest price, because I already know everything I want to know about a product..., and the one where I want advice because of the potential to waste more money by purchasing the wrong product. Both of these strategies usually result in the getting the best overall value or cost to me. It makes a really big difference to me if people employ "Sales people" who's sole job is to make more money, or "knowledgeable staff".

Should they have told him about the paint - Yes
Is it their Fault - No

I think more people should put their stories like this out on the line, and I hope that the name calling won't deter other people from doing so. That way if there are things they hadn't considered then they can be told...