Seat bag problem.... and Motormail - Comments welcome

[Zapf]

What has the car got to do with it? You publicly complained about a retail motorcycle outlet and threatened legal action via legal statute. There was no hint that you'd even considered that you might have checked out proper installation procedure or negotiated with Motomail, instead you bad mouthed them in a public forum with incomplete evidence. Given that this is a "written" media, and probably archived you've done yourself no favours.

Despite what you say further down, we DO pay for the SCC, and there are costs involved for the losing party. I think you are being frivolous, you haven't explained yourself well at all, and if you take ANYTHING away from this make sure it is asking how something works BEFORE you spend money on it. If you possibly can, reflect on why it is not always the "best" approach to use the CGA or SCC whenever things go wrong for you. You may have a "right" (actually a privilege) to legal recourse but is it the right thing to do?

QUOTE POST #63 (Please read again below)

Posh, read again. I have tried to resolve it nice and calmly. I when there in person and reminded them about the bag that was sold and fitted by them. and then pointed out the paint damage, and anything that they would do to set me right / fair and square. They gave me a number for a paint shop and that it, refused to provide refund for the bag, refused to compensate in any part for the paint damage, refused to acknowledge that the bag had any fault in design or fit what so ever. I was nice and asked nicely, but I got given the long walk around and reason / excuse for everything, other words a long winded way of saying "no we don't care and have no responsibility although we did recommended that bag for your bike and fitted it"

[Paul in NZ]

And one of those net thingees?

I sorta need to know...

Yeah! I've got one of those net thingies and sometimes even use it on the bike! (I use it on the kayak too - what were you thinking of?)

They are a bit wimpy though and only useful for holding my usual mobile haystack together and not much chop for holding stuff ON. Tight bungees are the go there! More the better 'cos it's amazin' how stuff falls to the side etc etc.

We use 2 small soft panniers, a tank bag and a old BMW soft sausage roll thingie (it was on sale) on the genuine and only snaped off twice Agostini Luggage rack and I'm amazed how much munt we can carry on a bike never designed to do so.

On a longer trip the net goes over everything and holds crap like the cover (in case you stop for coffee and it rains) and stuff I pick up off the road (old hub caps, spare limbs and hitch hikers)

Paul N

[Posh Tourer :P]

you couldnt be more wrong about me...I believe, for example, that PaulN is responsible for the emotional tone of his posts, good guy identity notwithstanding (and from what Ive seen hes an excellent guy). I believe you are responsible for the buddy defence stance you took and for recognising it thusly instead of claiming moral highground, and, this morning I am tempted to hold you responsible for the curdling of my coffee along with my usually sunshiny personality, but I wont, because (a) I have liked you thus far (b) its up to me how I choose to respond to another human being or a human circumstance complete with multiple flaws...and in this case, as is my TRUE philosophy, I CHOOSE to stay calm and acknowledge my choices. So there. Phhht.

Not wanting to be picky/smarmy, but these are not bad things that have happened to these people so dont apply to whoever-it-was's argument

[Posh Tourer :P]

Posh, read again. I have tried to resolve it nice and calmly. I when there in person and reminded them about the bag that was sold and fitted by them. and then pointed out the paint damage, and anything that they would do to set me right / fair and square. They gave me a number for a paint shop and that it, refused to provide refund for the bag, refused to compensate in any part for the paint damage, refused to acknowledge that the bag had any fault in design or fit what so ever. I was nice and asked nicely, but I got given the long walk around and reason / excuse for everything, other words a long winded way of saying "no we don't care and have no responsibility although we did recommended that bag for your bike and fitted it"

[peace]

Ok, fair enough, I think that they have some responsibility here if they fitted the bag. They still did tell you that paint can rub off, so some of it is yours too. I think that it isnt worth hassling them over - Its a pain in the butt for a small business going to small claims court, and I think in the interests of a working society its worth just wearing the damage (see earlier references to litigious society etc).

You may be claiming that you havent threatened them or anything, but your original post says "I plan on following this up with a written letter and then small claims". That is part of the reason why everyone is so riled.... (or as they would have it, mildy interested)

[Posh Tourer :P]

Oh and everyone, please really read up on what small claims courts is. It not sueing someone, its a disputes resolution method when both parties cannot resolve their differences. Where a 3rd party will look at it from a neutral prespective. NO Damages or penelties can be imposed except on the subject / object in question. NO lawyers are involved. So NO you would be footing the bill for lawyers or court fees.

Yes, I am aware that the small claims court is not punitive. I still reserve the right to say that in this case it might as well be because there wasnt (in your original post) enough evidence to prove they were at fault as far as I was concerned.

[Motu]

As a small business owner I live in fear of people like Zapf - they can take me to the cleaners over matters that are absolutly nothing to do with me.The small claims court and consumers rights are stacked against the business holder - even after they have done all the right things,they get back...'you should of known better',well, the customer should of known better too,but we can't say anything bad about them can we,oh no....

[Lou Girardin]

Lou

My full name is in my email which is on this site as well as where I live. 2 seconds with the white pages will find me and I have said nothing here I would not say in court or in person. Ask anyone that knows me!

If people are offended by honesty then why should I back off? I'd be less than honest myself then? If I'm wrong, I appologise! If people are a bit sensitive? This is a bloody motorbike site! Not a tea party for the queen!

Paul N

BTW! I thought your little dig at the opposition was a goodie! As a retailer, Don't tell me you have never been through this sort of thing though!

It wasn't solely directed at you Paul, but I do think that there is a very aggresive tone that is often unecessary. But we shouldn't get all american and nauseatingly nice either.
I've met zapf and he doesn't strike me as a whinger or victim.
And, yes, we do get unreasonable people at work. But I've learnt that you never win an argument with a customer.

[NC]

On a longer trip the net goes over everything and holds crap like the cover (in case you stop for coffee and it rains) and stuff I pick up off the road (old hub caps, spare limbs and hitch hikers)

Paul N

Oh thank you


Can I get of those extra limbs off you? Great for party trix

[manuboy]

Hey yah..... Zapf.... why can't you just respray? for around $50-90 bucks it'll be cheaper than what you lose on the trade?????

I was never gonna mention this. But one night, i had a beer. Well...actually if was half a shandy, but i was well wobbly, and i decided to go out on a dark, dark night - with the express intention of getting rid of 5 of the 150 safety stickers suzuki stick on.

Little did i realise they were not stickers, but titanium labels stuck on with super glue and fly shit... so i pulled out a blunt scraper thinking "argh... it's gonna get nasty, but ill be careful and use this here citrus anti sticky stuff".

Walked out the next mornin, Faaaaaaaaark! WTF? I'd scraped an area of "paint" about the size of your hand off the exposed frame. So i screamed, yelled, cursed the gods, thought about putting a bigger uglier sticker than the one i'd removed and selling the bike to my next door neighbour.

When sanity returned, i turned up at the local panelbeater supply shop, they colour matched it by eye. $30 bucks of silver and $17 bucks of clear topcoat, and nobody is the wiser. And the thing is, i like the bike even better now. It's like a house dude - it ain't really yours until you've knocked it round and patched it up.

Go ahead - i promise it'll make you feel better than hassling the poor lads at Motomail!

p.s some paints are harder to match than others, the candy and pearl effects that are common today are... but it can be done....

[NC]

I was never gonna mention this. But one night, i had a beer. Well...actually if was half a shandy, but i was well wobbly, and i decided to go out on a dark, dark night - with the express intention of getting rid of 5 of the 150 safety stickers suzuki stick on.

...

A shandy! That's too much even for me!!!

But seriously...that's cheap!
I had a dude try and tell me that 500 bucks to respray the tank of the NC, and I had to sand it back... I passed and painted the bike myself...except for the tank...looks good from a distance

[Zapf]

As a small business owner I live in fear of people like Zapf - they can take me to the cleaners over matters that are absolutly nothing to do with me.The small claims court and consumers rights are stacked against the business holder - even after they have done all the right things,they get back...'you should of known better',well, the customer should of known better too,but we can't say anything bad about them can we,oh no....

ah yes Motu, I know all well. I run my small business, but I sure as don't tell me customers to piss off when some thing I have sold them damanges something else they own. I would have looked at the problem, find out why it occured and propose a solution, and if required make them happy so they will come back.

Motormail is a small business? not that small.

Can they afford a bag getting returned and a paint fix up without adversely affecting the business, yes. But to me their mentiality is that its ok to not sort me out cause they are big enough and don't need me as a customer.... and that is what have set me on this direction.

So fine, I am getting all sorts of givi panniers and racks. Do you think I'll buy it from there? no. So for the long term they have loose me as a customer, now tell me from a business prespective what makes sense? loose little now and make more money later? or not loose little now andd make none later?

if they are smart about business they should have done the right thing.

ps. yes i am going to be getting a quote of getting the paint fixed.

[Zapf]

Yes, I am aware that the small claims court is not punitive. I still reserve the right to say that in this case it might as well be because there wasnt (in your original post) enough evidence to prove they were at fault as far as I was concerned.

Cool. point taken.

[Yamahamaman]

CAVEAT EMPTOR

Live with it. The product does what it was intended to do - it carries luggage. I do not believe you have any recourse.

[Posh Tourer :P]

So fine, I am getting all sorts of givi panniers and racks. Do you think I'll buy it from there? no. So for the long term they have loose me as a customer, now tell me from a business prespective what makes sense? loose little now and make more money later? or not loose little now andd make none later?

So they have lost out. Don't go there anymore, and tell them that you were going to buy a set of panniers from them, but you dont like their service, ie that you think they ought to have shown you how to fit the panniers to prevent damage. Thats enough, and if they know that you arent going back, isnt that enough for you? It is as much of an effect for them as small claims court.
If enough people think similarly to you, then they'll be forced to change thier standards, but you taking them to small claims certainly wont do it....

[soundbeltfarm]

hey zaph if you be getting hard top box, what you doing with your piece of trouble bag?
i couldnt give 2 shits what it does to the exterior of my bike.
its their for me to ride not look at, because it was hit with the ugly stick at birth. so theres FU%$#all looks going on with my puppy. ( scratch it some more i say)
let me know.