100% responsibility

[FROSTY:Me]

I know this has been floated in different ways lately BUT.
What would happen if we all rode with the ATTITUDE that we are 100% responsible for what happens to us on our bikes?
So that fuckwit in the car that just pulled out in front of ya.
You ride in a way that stops you hitting him.
Ditto other road hazards
Could it work? would it change how you ride on the road?

[Ixion]

Is not this exactly the same principle which Mr Katman has been reaping much abuse for proposing ?

[FROSTY:Me]

Im asking the question --what would happen if.........?
and its not the fact Im thinking of more the ATTITUDE

[DingoZ]

I ride my bike every single time knowing that I am responsible for MY ACTIONS and my actions alone on the bike....

If I overtake a car.....I am responsible for that manouver
If I merge into a different lane on the motorway. I am responsible to make sure it is safe to do so beforehand.

Responsible for others actions whether on a bike or car....NO...They are out of my control....

I control what I ride like. Or how I ride...Therefore that is something that I contol and will be responsible for...

[Ixion]

Well, you ask the question 'what would happen if " (motorcyclists accepted responsibility for what happens to them ) . the clear corollary being that they do not at present.

Which is exactly Mr Katman's statement, if I understand him correctly.

Mr Jim2 has also taken the same position in the past with the same negative results.

[MIXONE]

I'm just an old fuck who learnt to ride so long ago that I don't know how to countersteer,ride at 8/10,wheelie the length of the Puke back straight and I'm sure the last time I got my knee down the rest of me followed shortly afterwards however the attitude I've always ridden with on the road is "every fucker is out to get me".Paranoia maybe but served me well to date (touch wood).
I also ride with the thought that if I can't see round the corner there is going to be a horse on my side of the road running directly at me.Don't laugh as it happened many moons ago on the Kaimais one foggy cold morning.
If I ride outside these parameters I know I'm pushing my luck.

[MSTRS:Me]

Is not this exactly the same principle which Mr Katman has been reaping much abuse for proposing ?

It's all in the delivery. And Frosty does not appear to be making sweeping assumptions.

[Ixion]

I take a slightly different approach though the end result is probably the same

I consider that every time I leave home I have a job of work to do, which is to get myself and the bike to my destination safely and expeditiously.

There will no doubt be various factors and problems I will meet with along the way that may make that job more or less problematic. No matter, it is my task to deal with them, one way or another, so that they do not affect my primary task. Some of them may be hazards of the road: gravel, diesel, nasty corners. Others may be human hazards: idiot drivers not giving way, cops, soccer Moms etc. I certainly am not responsible for what they may do, but, none the less, I must make sure that whatever they do, I still get my job done. Because no-one else will do it for me.

I can draw a close analogy to a military operation. A commanding officer may say to one of his officers 'Your task is to get yourself and the men in your command over to Hill99 as fast as possible, without any casualties'

If that officer were to reply 'But, Sir, there are enemy troops out there. They may shoot at us. I can't take responsibility for that. And the battlefield is muddy. And there may be mines or other hazards, I can't be responsible for those either', I wonder what his CO's response would be ?

I rather think something along the lines of 'I don't give a damn about all that, that's your job to deal with it. Just get on and do it and stop whining about it not being your responsibility'.

[yungatart]

Some on here do ride with that attitude.
Some on here take full responsibility for their riding.
Some on here have "good", "safe", "responsible", "mature" attitudes to their riding.
It will never happen that all motorcyclists do, human nature has seen to that...

[merv]

Its exactly what defensive driving training for cage drivers is all about isn't it, so sure, same principle applies for bikers.

[Usarka]

Yep - you may not necessarilly be "at fault" but you should understand the risks and deal with it. every fecker is out to get you including yourself.

[onearmedbandit]

Of course we would all like to have that attitude. For the most part I do. But what about these circumstances:

Riding through town at a speed applicable to the conditions, aware of all your surroundings etc. Go through an intersection, buildings blocking your view so much that to be sure no one runs a red light you would have to stop and check both ways. Sure enough, a car runs a red and takes you out.

Riding in a dual lane road, concentrating on riding, observing everything around you as best you can without taking concentration away from actually riding. A car that had previously been travelling in the lane next to you suudenly veers across and takes you out.

And there could be lots more examples. In every one of my accidents I could've blamed other conditions, but have realised that I was the one who was in control. I'm just lucky enough not to have been in any of the above examples before.

All I'm saying is that we should do everything to ensure our safety, but to do it 100% of the time would mean either never taking the bike out of the garage or only riding when there are no other road users around.

[ElCoyote]

Responsible for others actions whether on a bike or car....NO...They are out of my control....

I control what I ride like. Or how I ride...Therefore that is something that I contol and will be responsible for...

My oar has just entered ther water and perhaps I am saying what you are saying, Indeed control your own enviroment but you also control the enviroment of others by "anticipating what they are liable to do" and positioning yourself accordingly. I am not trying to be flippant but, instead of watching for indicators, or lack thereof, watch the body language of the driver. For most drivers, any manoeuvre is an afterthought and looking at a fender in anticipation of a signal from God will get you killed. Many trucks display a sign, "If you can't see my mirrors, I can't see you", yet drivers (both 2 and 4 wheel) look at the body of the other vehicle, hoping for divine intervention and are unpleasantly surprised by the lack of response.

I owned and operated a Taxi for 24 years and did not even have so much as a scrape on any vehice I owned.....BUT.....I have also owned, raced and ridden bikes since I was 15.

Unfortunately money cannot buy experience and I sympathise with those who get hurt because they "did not get experience" straight off. I will admit to being lucky several/many times, but with each "lucky event" the memory banks swelled and I can now "smell" trouble from 100 metres. My advice to all and sundry would be this: Plan your journey and dont EXPECT to exit a multi lane road (Motorway) at the last minute without repurcusions to yourself or other motorists, just because you thought you could overtake "just one more car" before you made that turn.

When you leave home, anticipate your journey and select the appropriate lane as early as possible. Despite the fact you my percieve that other lanes are moving faster ("at the time) you will save time by remaining in your exit lane. While doing so, observe the fuckwits that are forced to change lanes at the last minute and bring the motorway to a crawl. IS THIS YOU.

Instead of criticising others, observe the faults you are critising others for and ask the question DO I DO THIS I can guarantee you do but are in denial.

Conclusion: Anticipate..................Plan...............Thi nk ahead...........concentrate..........and best of all, when lightning strikes........DON'T PANIC. If you observe the above, you will have anticipated 99.9% of any situation that will confront you and react accordingly, while there is still every chance of reducing an incident into a "Thank God". Try it and see. A biker that was/is/has been a cager is significantly less likely to cause a problem to any other road user than the current crop of fuckwits the LTSA deems suitable to hold a licence.

Unless an oncoming driver suffers a system failure and "collides with you" there is no such thing as an accident. It is an incident, despite what the LTsA attempts to include into their smoke screen of "SPEED/ALCOHOL" Mantra.

This is a brief account of what is wrong on our roads. Long letter to follow.

[Ixion]

All I'm saying is that we should do everything to ensure our safety, but to do it 100% of the time would mean either never taking the bike out of the garage or only riding when there are no other road users around.

Indeed so. No one can be perfect. But it can the target we set.

Go back to my military analogy.

It is of no use for 2nd Lt Ixion to whine to his CO that 'he cannot be responsible for the enemy shooting at him'. He will told to HTFU and remember that he is a King's Officer.

So he goes out, and gets his men safely through to Hill 99. Despite the enemy snipers , the mud and the landmines

And , again, the next day ditto.

But , sooner or later , perhaps, he will run out of luck and despatchs for the day will record the sad fact that 2nd Lt Ixion, while leading his platoon was targeted by enemy nebelwerfers and he and his platoon were blown to Kindom Come. But, at least, he tried. You can always try.

And maybe the campaign ends before those damn nebelwerfers arrive and the gallant subaltern is posted back to Blighty all in one piece

We can always try

And end of the day, no-one out there gives a fuck if you live or die. Except you. So best to leave the job to the only person who cares about it , eh?

[McJim]

Is not this exactly the same principle which Mr Katman has been reaping much abuse for proposing ?

He's not reaping abuse for that principle at all. He's reaping abuse for the way he talks down his nose to some bikers who already take responsibility for their actions, the way they ride and their choice of underpowered bikes.

Patronising is the word I seek methinks.

I got hit by a car (I went through a green light and she went through a red) and learned my lesson over a year ago.