Bikers collide with Police car in Buller Gorge (1 December)

[JimBob]

This has happened in Auckland, and that case was settled out of court by the police a month ago, a U turning vehicle collided with a police dog wagon, with lights on, no siren.
There is plenty of 'common law' built up on this, and anyone who has been charged with U turning dangerously will be watching very closely.
There will be no 'good' outcome of this instance no matter what, and the worse case scenario is that U turns can be made when they are morally bankrupt, so to speak.

I think with this one the initial investigation blamed both parties, the police car was doing 80k in a 50k area(within police guidlines) but had no siren, and it wasnt the greatest place to do a Uy. No action was going to be taken but later they decided to charge the car driver doing the Uy but not the policeman. This pissed the car driver off and he fought the charges vigorously to say the least.

[JimBob]

And I may as well put my tuppence worth in
I have often thought when I am flying around a corner (not neccessarily breaking the speed limit) "what if" Some corners you could be doing 80k and only have 20 metres visibility. About 1/2 a second? Not a lot of time to do much.
In this case the distance between the corner and where the turn was made, and the speed of the motorcycles around the corner will be the important.
All in relation to the environment, weather, visibility, road conditions etc etc
Responsibility will be apportioned and then it will be decided if anyone gets charged. The policman probably has a bit of a headstart in the responsibility stakes but it is by no means cut and dried.
Until then I will hold of hanging anyone in case I hang the wrong person.

[Usarka]

Much more dangerous to self and others to do a 3 point turn on a blind corner than to around it at a speed where you cannot stop in the visible distance.

[orange dog]

You can't say that. You don't know the circumstances, none of us do.

I don't do traffic and my forte is certainly front line policing but i can say as someone who has completed serious crash courses that it is too early to say who is at fault. Anyone can do a U turn on New Zealand roads, its one of the things you are tested on in the road code. A lot of countries have banned U turns all together because they easily cause accidents - I have had to pick a dead biker up who had a car do an illegal U turn in front of him and the car was totally at fault.

In this case you don't know if the cop pulled out without looking, if he did a three point turn with enough space for someone to stop if they were doing the speed limit and the bikes were going too fast to stop, whether he did not leave enough space for someone to stop and the bikes were doing the speed limit but were unable to stop due to the cops position on the road etc etc etc

As bikers some of us very quickly blame cars that knock us off, if it's a Police Officer who is involved a large portion move very quickly to the blame game without really knowing any of the facts or even having an informed opinion.

Im not having a dig at you, your opinion matches a lot of other people on here, just try and have an objective view.

You're right, it's just that I know the road well and this could have been me. don't want my kids to be fatherless just yet.

[skelstar]

Can't agree there mate.. Debate the isuue enough and we may actually force the truth and reality about why this accident happened as I smell arse covering at the moment.

Fair comment, but surely arguing about it online does shit-all until you take it out the real world. All it does is give know-it-alls and people-with-axes-to-grind something to puff their chests about. 15 pages of thread and no-one has really convinced anyone of what happened...

Now thats sad..

Isn't it

[Coldrider]

I think with this one the initial investigation blamed both parties, the police car was doing 80k in a 50k area(within police guidlines) but had no siren, and it wasnt the greatest place to do a Uy. No action was going to be taken but later they decided to charge the car driver doing the Uy but not the policeman. This pissed the car driver off and he fought the charges vigorously to say the least.

From memory recollection the guy spent $120K to clear his name, the police having to stump up half of that to him. (Justice costs ?)
That is why the Buller Gorge incident is not a clear cut case, but will be most interesting. There is two processes going on, the Serious crash investigation, and the legal eagle process, regardless of the outcome of both.
I don't care whether the policeman is charged or what ever, my concern is the level of care required to be exercised when U turning into the public may be seriously eroded. There is moral duties we have to each other, over and above what the law requires.

Edit: I also wish the two gentleman injured have a speedy recovery, though serious injuries do take time to heal, and stay in the memory forever.
Good luck MD, you are a gentleman also.

[Squiggles]

How about ever body just shuts the F*&K up and does some F&%kin work for a change.

I'm on a day off so I'm allowed to waste my time if I want to, the rest of you loafers pull ya bloody heads in start paying your taxes so I can get pay rise.

omg lol, cant give you more rep

[cruza]

On TV1 news tonight, yet another police car trashed in an urban area, ended up off the road on someones front lawn, 2 police, 1 car, one wet road, no one else involved, no defence offered by top brass. T'is getting a bit embarrassing isn't it.

What missed the turnoff and doing a u-turn??

[MSTRS:Me]

omg lol, cant give you more rep

Yep....Mods have decreed that SC cannot have any more....

[Ixion]

On TV1 news tonight, yet another police car trashed in an urban area, ended up off the road on someones front lawn, 2 police, 1 car, one wet road, no one else involved, no defence offered by top brass. T'is getting a bit embarrassing isn't it.

An interesting insight into police attitude, which is quite relevant to the topic (from the Stuff report of the above crash)

Police said road conditions caused the car to lose control on a corner while it was en route to an accident.

Road conditions caused the crash? But aren't we all supposed to drive to the conditions , and slow down ?
The car lost control? What about the driver?

Any other driver, it would be "The driver lost control because he failed to drive to the road condition". But when it's a cop, the road condition becomes an excuse, and it's the car blamed for the loss of control. Subtle, but it clearly demonstrates the mindset.

EDIT: Where's Mr Katman when he's needed!

[cruza]

How about ever body just shuts the F*&K up and does some F&%kin work for a change.

I'm on a day off so I'm allowed to waste my time if I want to, the rest of you loafers pull ya bloody heads in start paying your taxes so I can get pay rise.

Tax's thats going a bit low--- I thought you guys were self funding via the quota system

[MSTRS:Me]

Subtle, but it clearly demonstrates the mindset.

Most people will not pick up the message on a conscious level. But the message does get through via subliminal means, whereby the reader may 'accept' that cops are blameless.
But we, as bikers, see through all the bullshit, one hopes?

[pritch]

I would of thought aiming for the doors would be your worst option. More likely your body will get collected by the body of the vehicle.

I hope I never have to use it but there is a theory for this situation.

The correct procedure is to stand on the pegs just prior to impact. This can save you breaking both femurs on the handle bars and may hopefully lift your trajectory enough that you pass over the vehicle.

Of course, in the Buller Gorge that could also put you over a fifty foot drop into the river?

Without pre-judging anything, and in this particular instance that isn't easy...
I can't remember the exact words but the British Police motorcycle riding manual warns against getting overwhelmed by the excitement of the occasion and letting judgement take a back seat.

[Ixion]

Received wisdom is that the least-worst place to hit a car is just abaft the front wheel arch, standing. Cars are squishy there, and you have a good chance of going over the bonnet. I am tempted to think that if you have sufficient time and control to select where to hit, then you have sufficient time and control to not hit at all.

[Scouse]

On TV1 news tonight, yet another police car trashed in an urban area, ended up off the road on someones front lawn, 2 police, 1 car, one wet road, no one else involved, no defence offered by top brass. T'is getting a bit embarrassing isn't it.

I heard that the owner ofthe house asked police driver what did you do that for, the cop said to owner of the house that you were speeding.