Newbie downshifting question

[TOTO]

I had similar problems when i first got my GTR. As i added more km's it has definantly got easier to find neutral (and also easier to skip neutral when shifting from 1st to 2nd...an embarassing pain in the ass initially!). However a good tip is to drop to first while still moving then quickly tap up to neutral before the bike has come to a complete stop. Its much easier to find N when the bike is still rolling a bit.

Yes , well thats what the guy at the workshop said today - I had it services for first time (1000k) so I'll see if it gets better with time, I guess in the mean time I'll keep trying.

[klingon]

Under no circumstances should you STOMP or need to push hard on the gear lever. If you come to a stop in 2nd or 3rd (or 1st for that matter) you might have to let the clutch out slightly or rock the bike back and forth a little to get it to change gear.

TOTO, sometimes I also have trouble changing from neutral to first or first to neutral when at a standstill. I recommend the rock-the-bike technique, or let the clutch out very slightly until the gears just start engaging (without letting go of the brake). Then try for neutral again.

It sounds a bit of a hassle but either your bike will loosen up with age or you'll just get used to its little quirks and you'll do it all without thinking. (Then you ride a different bike and have to get used to a whole new set of quirks!)

[babyblade250rr]

If your bike is new or has extremely low k's the gear box prolly hasnt had time to wear in, I remember when i first rode the R6 off the show room floor the gearbox was madness, especially after comming off a fully worn in cbr

[breakaway]

I think that different boxes behave deifferently. When I had my RG, I could be in neutral, and click down for first, only to have it not engage. I had to move the bike a bit, and then slam it down, and it'd work. But with the CBR that's not a problem, just slam it down and it locks in with a solid tight CLICK.

[enigma51]

Well there is the guy called (hmmm lets call him bob) and he told me that as you come to the corner you shift all the way in to first let go of the clucth and as the rear wheel locks up slightly touch the rear brake getting the bike side ways then feather the clucth to maintain a sideways "drift" all the way to the apex ooooo yes only do this on the racetrack

For the road if you need to use the gears to slow down for a red light slow down you going to fast in the first case

[ambler]

If you come to a stop in 2nd or 3rd (or 1st for that matter) you might have to let the clutch out slightly or rock the bike back and forth a little to get it to change gear.

Sometimes you can let the clutch out until it engages just a little, and this will be enough to let you change gear without needing to physically 'rock' the bike.

[FilthyLuka]

Well there is the guy called (hmmm lets call him bob) and he told me that as you come to the corner you shift all the way in to first let go of the clucth

over revving anybody?

dude, way not healthy

sounds like something the kalamari kid would say...

[xwhatsit]

I think that different boxes behave deifferently. When I had my RG, I could be in neutral, and click down for first, only to have it not engage. I had to move the bike a bit, and then slam it down, and it'd work. But with the CBR that's not a problem, just slam it down and it locks in with a solid tight CLICK.

Probably the difference between Suki and Hondarr gearbox philosophies there. Everybody waffles on about the silky smooth Suzook gear change. I, being educated in Ancient Hondas 101, found them to lack feedback and feel very remote compared to the obvious `clunk' of the bikes I ride. Never in any doubt with an old Honda gearbox -- and anybody within 100 metres is never in any doubt either

Felt very at home on an old BMW twin in that regard

[Daffyd]

I agree with everything you say except this statement. Its so wrong its not funny. You have no idea how many gearboxes we rebuild every year because someone has read on the net that its ok to change gear without the clutch. It might work for a while but the consequential damage is bloody expensive to fix. It might not show up at first but i bet you a free gearbox rebuild that it will happen.

I tried clutchless upchanges for a while but it started jumping out of gear so I gave it up. Figured it wasn't going into gear properly.

[Ocean1]

Probably Never in any doubt with an old Honda gearbox -- and anybody within 100 metres is never in any doubt either

Funny you should say that, the best boxes I ever knew were the XL Hondas. Very positive, (IE no mis-shifts or false neutrals) and slicker'n snot. Although I did manage to break a couple.

[Big Dog]

Have not read the whole thread but I get asked this a lot.

According to several books and several mechanics...and shit they all agreed on something...

Upshifting on smaller cc gearboxes can wreck the dogs (the bits that keep it in gear once selected), faster if done incorrectly.
Downshifting on all gearboxes risks bending the selector or wearing the dogs.

HOWEVER - Everybody should do this often enough that they feel comfortable to do so if the clutch experiences catastrophic failure in the engaged position so you can ride home.

Up shifting: Roll off, shift as you pass through the spot (between 500 and 1500 depending on gearing) where you can change with the least transmision line whip.

Down shifting is the exact opposite except you have more leverage. Hence the greater probablility of bent selectors.

One of my books, forget which one advises to try pre loading the shifter and seeing where it shifts as you roll on for a down shift. It also advises this can be exensive if you have a small cc bike or a cheap chain and you do it all the time, because there will almost certainly be some recoil (exception being two strokes, just for the pedants around hear).
Now repeat but do the shift at 2-300 rpm higher.

Going up has a much wider range of acceptable speeds than down. Once you master down up will become habit, but put down away for that rainy day in the future unless you are a racer and need that response time or can otherwise afford to replace your transmision on a regular basis.

[Big Dog]

I tried clutchless upchanges for a while but it started jumping out of gear so I gave it up. Figured it wasn't going into gear properly.

If we discount worn dogs as a cause (eg it does not happen to anyone else you let ride your bike), then it is most likely that you are not positive enought in your action or you are doing it 500 rpm too high or too low.

[xwhatsit]

Funny you should say that, the best boxes I ever knew were the XL Hondas. Very positive, (IE no mis-shifts or false neutrals) and slicker'n snot. Although I did manage to break a couple.

Well yeah, same gearbox in my bike. XL/XR250 pre-RFVC. I've had maybe one false neutral ever (funnily enough while clutchless upshifting), and one or two mis-shifts due to very slack chain after 400km ride and getting towards end of oil-change period. Still really slams and clunks into gear, though -- although that's probably what you mean by `very positive'

When mine blows up (it will eventually, I'll be keeping this bike until I give up biking), in will go the 6-speed XR gear cluster. Got a couple of spare 5-speed clusters.

Big Dog, what do you mean about 500-1500 rpm? If the clutch is left engaged, how is the bike only doing 500-1500rpm when you're about to upshift (assuming we're not talking about a big British single)?

[2wheeldrifter]

Downshift dude.... if your bike sounds cool it's a plus!

[Ocean1]

Well yeah, same gearbox in my bike. XL/XR250 pre-RFVC. I've had maybe one false neutral ever (funnily enough while clutchless upshifting), and one or two mis-shifts due to very slack chain after 400km ride and getting towards end of oil-change period. Still really slams and clunks into gear, though -- although that's probably what you mean by `very positive'

Never had a 250, just XL350s. Never felt they were clunky or harsh. Guess the thing I find with a lot of bikes is a lack of feel. I think that happens when a gearset tends to jump out, they increase the pressure on the drum detent. It works, but the detent is all you can feel, rather than the movement of the selector and the gears.

The XL box was reliable on the 250s, but the bigger top end on the 350s pushed the dogs on 3rd/4th hard. Add a few extra HP and treat it like an MX bike and you started to get breakages after a while.

Re six speed: waste of time unless the engine's very very optomised for track racing. I used to wish my 350s were 4 speed, and in fact the last one I geared so high it effectively was one.