Campervan accident - I'm puzzled how...

**Duc** · 7th December 2007, 14:15

What puzzles me about this tragic incident is how did four MCs get involved in one accident. One or two I might understand but...

I am curious about what sort of formation and proximities th e motor cyclists may have been riding in that they all were unable to avoid the campervan or maybe each other once involved.

Wonder if there is something to learn from this tragedy.

**magicfairy** · 7th December 2007, 14:22

Wasn't it 2 bikes, both with pillions?

**Steam** · 7th December 2007, 14:23

Originally Posted by Duc

Wonder if there is something to learn from this tragedy.

There's certainly something for you to learn... read the news reports more carefully to see whether they were pillioning.

**Duc** · 7th December 2007, 14:31

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10480914

I believe you will find that this article mentions two other MCs involved. 2+2=4

**Steam** · 7th December 2007, 14:33

Oh yeah you are right. Owww I just burned myself!

**Duc** · 7th December 2007, 14:35

Apology accepted.

**Tank** · 7th December 2007, 14:43

Originally Posted by Duc

Apology accepted.

Don't be so gracious. - its not the KB way.

**xwhatsit** · 7th December 2007, 14:49

When large groups of riders ride in staggered formation, it's usually a good idea. Staggered formation allows a bit of extra breathing room for braking etc, as if it really gets bad you can go up alongside them. What I have noticed though, is that people tend to reduce their following distances anyway, because they've got the extra breathing room that the formation allows. This means there's less opportunity to swerve and avoid things, I suppose.

Just a thought, I'm not terribly experienced with formation-style rides.

**HTFU** · 7th December 2007, 15:08

Multitude of ways the accident could have gone.

I am guessing that the first two bikes bore the brunt of the impact and the next two in line came off a bit better.

But shit one of the bikes could have been 4th in a line up and still got hit or in trying to avoid the van went off the road etc.

Tragic days riding that one.

**Usarka** · 7th December 2007, 15:46

it was a head on for fucks sake. have you ever played ten pin bowling?

**Conquiztador** · 7th December 2007, 16:21

The bikes going 100K/h and the camper going 100K/h in opposite directions.

That is the same as if you were going 200K/h towards a concrete wall.

That makes it a fraction over 55m/sec towards each other.

Measure out 55 meters outside (55 long steps) and you will see that it is a fair distance. You would easily think that it was enough for you to make an evasive move. Then say loud: "Onehundredone" and that is all the time you have to do something over that 55 meters before you smack in to that concrete wall at 200K/h...

**Mikkel** · 7th December 2007, 16:26

Originally Posted by Conquiztador

The bikes going 100K/h and the camper going 100K/h in opposite directions.

That makes it a fraction over 55m/sec towards each other.

That is the same as if you were going 200K/h towards a concrete wall.

Measure out 55 meters outside (55 long steps) and you will see that it is a fair distance. You would easily think that it was enough for you to make an evasive move. Then say loud: "Onehundredone" and that is all the time you have to do something over that 55 meters before you smack in to that concrete wall at 200K/h...

Add to that the camper van was lying down at 90° to the road and blocking a lot of it.

Originally Posted by Tank

Don't be so gracious. - its not the KB way.

Indeed - the proper response is summed up in the attached image.

**Duc** · 7th December 2007, 17:43

Not sure where you got the speed info from. Who told you that was the case in this instance? (Could have been more or could have been less so thats conjecture on your part)

Quote : "it was a head on for fucks sake. have you ever played ten pin bowling?"

Huh? Unfortunately and sadly it may have been for the front riders... but what about the rest?

One common sense rule of the driving is one should be able to stop in half the visible clear distance ahead. This is really applicable to following drivers/ riders. I frequently see group riders well inside the basic two second rule (staggered or otherwise).

We will never know exactly what the situation was that caused this massive tragedy but we do need to think about things in case they happen to us or our mates - and then learn from it

**sunhuntin** · 7th December 2007, 20:38

have you ever ridden in a group? i have numerous times [only ever on special events like a charity or protest ride] and can see easily how an incident such as this could get so nasty. there is no reaction time when you come around a corner and are faced with a camper van racing towards you. its a wonder there were not more riders injured/killed. sure, people ride staggered, but even that is no defence to this. staggered is more so you can see the road and have allowance for braking. im betting the 4 bikes involved did NOT have the chance to brake. from what i can see from the photo, there were no skidmarks from the bikes.

**Conquiztador** · 7th December 2007, 21:11

Originally Posted by Duc

Not sure where you got the speed info from. Who told you that was the case in this instance? (Could have been more or could have been less so thats conjecture on your part)

Quote : "it was a head on for fucks sake. have you ever played ten pin bowling?"

Huh? Unfortunately and sadly it may have been for the front riders... but what about the rest?

One common sense rule of the driving is one should be able to stop in half the visible clear distance ahead. This is really applicable to following drivers/ riders. I frequently see group riders well inside the basic two second rule (staggered or otherwise).

We will never know exactly what the situation was that caused this massive tragedy but we do need to think about things in case they happen to us or our mates - and then learn from it

Dude, you can learn how much you want. The reality is that if a car/camper van that is coming in the other direction suddenly veers toward you at speed while you happily are riding minding your own business you are history. (The driver admitted fault, she admitted that she got the wheels off the tarseal and on to the gravel on the l/h side, then she over corrected and got on to the wrong side smashing in to the bikes).

A very sad situation. For the riders, their families, but also for the driver who made a mistake that killed 4 riders. As far as I can tell she is a normal girl who phucked up badly with this tragic result.

But to try to say that the riders should have been expecting something like this and been prepared.