Campervan that hit bikers a couple of weeks back

**steveb64** · 20th December 2007, 02:12

Originally Posted by Conquiztador

Perhaps not the richest country in the world. But they do not do badly. The average weekly income in 2006 was NZ$ 880.00. In NZ we had in 2006 an average of $610.00.

So all this proves is that our income is good for a third world country, and Austria's is bad for a first world country.

**mynameis** · 20th December 2007, 03:26

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10483305

Discuss my fellow bikers. What are your thoughts about this? Fair/Unfair Just/Unjust. Rational reasons please?

Thanks,

**fuknKIWI** · 20th December 2007, 04:18

Originally Posted by mynameis

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10483305

Discuss my fellow bikers. What are your thoughts about this? Fair/Unfair Just/Unjust. Rational reasons please?

Thanks,

In one word;
Disgustice

**Drum** · 20th December 2007, 04:47

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=63316

**Grahameeboy** · 20th December 2007, 04:52

I disagree.................even the Family of the deceased seem to have been supportive of the driver.

She was not fined but had to pay $30,000 and she was still banned from driving in NZ for 12 months so whats the problem. She was a tourist so she has to go home.

What do you think should have happened?

**mynameis** · 20th December 2007, 05:18

Ask the question was it morally right and ethical?

Make comparisons of other crimes and punishment given?

Why does our judicial system work the way it is.

Does the punishment fit or not? Why?

**denill** · 20th December 2007, 06:05

What a strange tone this thread has. Money seems to matter? To most the amount of money is important?

It was an accident. A TRAGIC accident.

NOTHING will make it right and in fact NOTHING will make it better for those whose lives have been taken - or for those whose lives have been affected.

Get off your high horses and stop spouting glib comments - as there but for the grace of god go any one of us. Driver or victim.

I feel so sorry for EVERYONE involved.

**swbarnett** · 20th December 2007, 06:26

Originally Posted by discodan

When the consequesnces of just 'having an accident' are so high? Yes I do think that the punishment for this is a joke. Especially when you compare it to other crimes such as tax fraud.

Yes, but tax fraud is a deliberate act. This accident wasn't.

**jonbuoy** · 20th December 2007, 06:29

Originally Posted by Ixion

All the touchy feely huggie wuggie stuff about what a wonderful couple they are, how remorseful she is etc , is really quite irrelevant.

There are huge numbers of those camper van things driven by tourists all over the roads. I get stuck behind one almost every time I go out.

The next time I see one I do not want to have to wonder if it is suddenly going to veer across the road in front of me when it is too late to swerve or stop.

Turning your vehicle over on the wrong side of a straight road is not the act of a competent driver.

Barring a true act of God (the van being hit by lightening or something) then there are only two possibilities: either the driver was negligent, or the nature of the vehicle (on that road at any rate) was such that the driver was not able properly to control it.

If the latter, then the appropriate authorties need to take steps to review the licensing arrangments that allow such vehicles to be driven by drivers who have not demonstrated competence at driving them. If the former , then she was negligent, in which case it matters not one jot how remorseful she is or how "lovely" they are. Are we to accept that it is permissable to drive negligently if one is "nice", and will be remorseful when one kills someone ? Negligence is negligence , whether the negligent person be a lovely tourist or the nasty Mongrel Mob member around.

FWIW, my money's on the nature of the vehicle being unsuitable for untrained drivers. Punishing this person further would serve little purpose (the next plane load of tourists won't even know about it). So that won't stop another one doing the same thing, in front of me . Requiring a higher standard of licensing, or forbidding them from difficult roads, might do

(BTW, I wonder why a 30 years old architect would have life savings of only $30K ? Cash on hand of that much , maybe, but to have no other assets by her age, given her profession seems to indicate remarkable improvidence).

Yeah right because camper vans kill more kiwi motorcyclist than other form of transport. I'd be more worried about the local lunatic late for work overtaking on a blind corner if I were you.

**James Deuce** · 20th December 2007, 06:36

Ixion's only in a snit because bikers were killed. If it had been a mini-bus full of school kids they hit (God forbid) there wouldn't be anything like the rant about "injustice" on KB that's been raging around this one.

If I died driving a car tomorrow (maybe even run into by a Drunk driver!), or got hit by a bus, or fell under a train at a train crossing, it would barely raise a murmur on KB. Get hit by someone who has an accident where their vehicle ended up on the wrong side of the road, a common occurrence when a motorcyclists "bins" on a country road, and the evil "cage" drivers must be punished, justice must be seen to be done.

I think single vehicle binning should attract an automatic Careless charge. You've proved you can't keep a motorcycle upright by falling off it. Then listen to the rants on KB about what an injustice the Careless charge was, it wasn't my fault there was cow poo (how many times have we told him!)/diesel/pea gravel on that corner, was it?

**Usarka** · 20th December 2007, 06:50

Good point about the bins.

This is something to keep in mind for all the people who think "binning" is an acceptable occurence on the roads. One day you might take out someone else in the process.....

And it might be your hanging that people are calling for.

(it can't have been my fault, I'm a good rider)

**Blue Velvet** · 20th December 2007, 07:31

Originally Posted by Jim2

Ixion's only in a snit because bikers were killed. If it had been a mini-bus full of school kids they hit (God forbid) there wouldn't be anything like the rant about "injustice" on KB that's been raging around this one.

But, um, this is a bikers forum...

Shrinks and fades into the dark recesses again

**MSTRS:Me** · 20th December 2007, 08:13

Originally Posted by denill

What a strange tone this thread has. Money seems to matter? To most the amount of money is important?

It was an accident. A TRAGIC accident.

NOTHING will make it right and in fact NOTHING will make it better for those whose lives have been taken - or for those whose lives have been affected.

Get off your high horses and stop spouting glib comments - as there but for the grace of god go any one of us. Driver or victim.

I feel so sorry for EVERYONE involved.

A truly sensible post. Pity there have been so few on here.
What the fuck makes so many of you think this was a deliberate act, with a total lack of remorse? Why, anyone would think the woman at the centre of this is down the pub, laughing at us Kiwis, all the while she is tanking up on Schnapps getting ready for her next spree-kill.
Get real. I can't believe the drivel I'm reading from some normally respected posters.

**Blue Velvet** · 20th December 2007, 08:25

Originally Posted by MSTRS

What the fuck makes so many of you think this was a deliberate act, with a total lack of remorse? Why, anyone would think the woman at the centre of this is down the pub, laughing at us Kiwis, all the while she is tanking up on Schnapps getting ready for her next spree-kill.
Get real. I can't believe the drivel I'm reading from some normally respected posters.

I certainly wasn't suggesting a deliberate act on the tourist's part. I know she didn't purposely veer into the shingle then over correct in order to hit the bikers. If it was me I'd probably want to top myself if I caused something like this.

But I still stand by my assertion that there is too much carelessness and inattentiveness on NZ roads.

**imdying** · 20th December 2007, 08:26

Originally Posted by mstriumph

i WISH people would stop saying that sort of thing

we have no idea whether the person concerned even HAS a concience so dribbling on about how awful they'll feel for the rest of their lives is ..... just dribble

Everyone has one... and nobody gets to ignore theirs forever...

Hopefully the bikers were saved and have gone to a better place anyway