I can't see the problem with our road toll?

[les king]

No worries, the clampdown on speed will make it safer for pedestrians....

and theres gonna be a shit load more of them around if helen and harry have their way

[Delphinus]

i agree with that. ive often thought itd be great to have a cop stationed on every single petrol station forecourt. not only would it make life safer for the staff, but the number on unregistered/warrented vehicles that come in... not to mention the unrestrained kids the dole bludgers keep producing... fines would be being handed out left right and center.

Thats actually a very valid point. Great way to catch all those type of vehicles. Even just to do a blitz occasionally. There is the possibility that the station with the cop might loose some revenue that day... would the manager mind Sunhuntin?

swbarnett, I couldn't agree more, its a dangerous world in many ways, if you're really worried that much then dont get in the car.
Guess the deaths are more visually horrific what with mangled cars and bodies and blood etc vs slowly coughing yourself to death in a hospital bed.

[sunhuntin]

Thats actually a very valid point. Great way to catch all those type of vehicles. Even just to do a blitz occasionally. There is the possibility that the station with the cop might loose some revenue that day... would the manager mind Sunhuntin?

swbarnett, I couldn't agree more, its a dangerous world in many ways, if you're really worried that much then dont get in the car.
Guess the deaths are more visually horrific what with mangled cars and bodies and blood etc vs slowly coughing yourself to death in a hospital bed.

if i could set it up, i wouldnt target one station. id have one cop at every single station this country has. everyone needs petrol eventually. and the number of cars that come in unroadworthy for whatever reason is disgusting.
would need, of course, thousands more cops, but could be good work for those who are halfway to being retired for whatever reason... would be basically security work with the ability to give tickets and arrest if needed.

my station gets cops in daily as customers. ive often noticed the more dodgy "likely to drive off type" customers have second thoughts when a red n blue pulls in.

[Delphinus]

if i could set it up, i wouldnt target one station. id have one cop at every single station this country has. everyone needs petrol eventually. and the number of cars that come in unroadworthy for whatever reason is disgusting.

It might be hard to get that done, due to like you say lack of staff available. But what if a few cops were stationed at random stations at random times. No car or undercover car.

[swbarnett]

Well, you're representing the figures in a slightly odd way, which my whiskey-addled brain might be misinterpreting, but I think there's better ways of saying those figures. The way you're writing them, if the number was `1', then that would mean there was one death for every registered vehicle. So you will never get large-looking figures like that.

A value of 1 would mean that the entire travelling public have only a year to live.
A value of 0.00015 means that the travelling public have a statistical life expectancy of 6,666 years. Not a bad wicket.

The only time I worry about any statistic is if it affects my own life expectancy or that of my circle of acquaintances. The road toll does not.

The more normal way of writing it would be to divide the number of registered vehicles by the number of deaths. Giving ~6619, which means that there was one death for every 6619 vehicles in New Zealand. Out of 2.7 million or so. Which doesn't sound quite so peachy.

Indeed you are right. I forgot that at 1 in the morning. Even so, 1 death per year per over 6000 vehicles is nothing to worry about. Put 6000 vehicles in close proximity and I'd lay odds that it would be impossible to run for long without averaging one death a year.

People always say `even one death is enough', but of course you can't eliminate every last death.

I would say that our current road toll is at the "every last death point".

What's the stats on us vs. the rest of the world w.r.t. road deaths?

I don't have the figures for anywhere else. From memory I think we are marginally higher than most. There are many reasons for this and I think comparing countries is fraught with difficulties (which is not to say that we can't learn anything from looking at others).

[sunhuntin]

It might be hard to get that done, due to like you say lack of staff available. But what if a few cops were stationed at random stations at random times. No car or undercover car.

that could work... i do think that while a station may loose a few sales due to having an onsite guard or cop, the returns would be bigger and better due to customers feeling safer all round.
or maybe have a second type of security guard, one with the power to arrest and issue fines, but doesnt hold the title of cop.
an undercover car could work, as it would be amongst staff cars, and most customers arent in often enough to know who drives what [even my daily customers dont realise that the motorbike is mine] so an unmarked car could hide quite nicely in full view.

[Delphinus]

that could work... i do think that while a station may loose a few sales due to having an onsite guard or cop, the returns would be bigger and better due to customers feeling safer all round.

And only the unreg/warrant'd people would have anything to worry about, and the only way to reduce sales would be if they were to talk to each other and say "Dont go to sunhuntin's BP/whatever" which I dont think is a likely hood.

I've heard on the radio sometimes of people warning of laser's being used in certain areas, but I dont think this will be a problem. Most law abiding drivers happily rego and warrant their vehicle. Its only the constant-drunk-drivers, disqualified, and "bums" who this would be targetting. Which IMO is more of a danger/risk (at any speed) than someone alert and travelling at 111km/h

[Coldrider]

If the death toll by motor accidents is reduced, the death rate by all other causes increases.

[Delphinus]

Also, this technique isn't even slowing people down. Some people moan about being stopped while driving along within the law, but in this case they are already stopped and out of the car, quick check in the window of warrant/rego, glance at license, and you're on your way.

[sunhuntin]

Also, this technique isn't even slowing people down. Some people moan about being stopped while driving along within the law, but in this case they are already stopped and out of the car, quick check in the window of warrant/rego, glance at license, and you're on your way.

exactly... ive spotted at least 2 unregoed vehicles in my 2 years, and seen many more with unrestrained kids. 2 out of date cars may not seem like many, but keep in mind i work an average of 26 hrs a week... so how many come in that i dont see? both vehicles were several years out. one looked like it was headed to the scrap yard, and the other i think was a housebus going to be restored.

[Ocean1]

exactly... ive spotted at least 2 unregoed vehicles in my 2 years, and seen many more with unrestrained kids. 2 out of date cars may not seem like many, but keep in mind i work an average of 26 hrs a week... so how many come in that i dont see? both vehicles were several years out. one looked like it was headed to the scrap yard, and the other i think was a housebus going to be restored.

I suspect you've not been looking very hard.
One per year isn't an issue worth worrying about, I seem to recall hearing that some 4% of vehicles passing any given checkpoint are on the road illegally. It's an easy problem to solve, issue registrations with embedded ID chips, install readers on all pumps. Done. The cost is even reasonably low.

Generally though, I'm agin' the creeping growth in rules. I druther ditch WOF's altogether and pay a higher tax on fuel to cover ACC. Simple is good.

[Delphinus]

I druther ditch WOF's altogether and pay a higher tax on fuel to cover ACC. Simple is good.

But how do you keen vehicles in some semblance of good mechanical repair?

Edit: or do you mean rego?

[sunhuntin]

yeh... i cant read every rego/wof... too busy with everything else. i notice the kids more because they are right where im putting the petrol in. if the petrol went in towards the front, then id likely notice rego/wof more often. only reason i noticed the two i did was cos they were both in crap condition. the ute didnt even have a rod to hold the bonnet up... so i made the owner hold it, lol.

just an aside, hydralic bonnet rods are not part of the wof... any idea why? i damn near had one slam on my head one time... stepped out to show the owner her dipstick, and SLAM! if id been underneath, i would have likely been burned and had a headache. now i test em and make the owners hold if they seem dicky.

[Pancakes]

Good thread SWB,

I disagree that it's not important cos each of those 1's is a person with a family. They also cost lots to investigate, clean up and the families have time off work etc. For each death there must be at least one other who was hospitalised or may not work again for some time too.

The point about trying to eliminate the very last numbers in a world with us crazy humans all over it is very valid tho.

+1 one for opening up an interesting topic.

[xwhatsit]

But how do you keen vehicles in some semblance of good mechanical repair?

Queensland has no WoF system whatsoever. People aren't falling out of cars and running off the road.

I think he does mean rego, though.