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Thread: New engine development - your input into layout requested.

  1. #1
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    2nd September 2007 - 10:15
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    New engine development - your input into layout requested.

    Hi!

    INTRO
    Looking for some input – some marketing information in essence – the central question being: What would you want?

    The major issue here is to the v-twin cachet versus single ie whether the benefits implied by the first option may or may not outweigh those of the second.

    Design balances road cruising with off-road capability – in neither case intended as a specialist or high performance powerplant – and with a high focus on reliability, ease of maintenance, and light-weight.

    TWO OPTIONS
    I'm developing a particular engine for motorcycle application. The designs themselves being advanced enough that I need to focus increasingly on the potential marketing – especially as this begins to impact on design.

    There are two avenues down which to continue development:

    The first being based on a single cylinder 400cc engine and an 800cc v-twin product line
    - the production benefit here is in utilising many of the same components in each unit – at the most basic, the 800 could use exactly the same components as the 400, with one extra cylinder. This simplifies maintenance of the range, reducing production complexity, and cost to customers of around 20%.

    The second option is based on a 400cc v-twin and 800cc v-twin
    - the two engines would be unlikely to share more than a bare minimum of components – with costs increased accordingly, as well as increasing the lead time to market – essentially, I'd be developing two different engines, as opposed to the one (with options) in the first case.

    QUESTIONS
    My main questions are these:

    Whether you chose a 400 or 800 model, how strongly would the v-twin aspect of it's design feature in your decision?

    Would the single cylinder aspect of the 400 put you off – as opposed to a 2+ cylinder 400?

    Finally, I'd be very interested in your thoughts on the subject – as they may not fall into those two questions.

    FORMAT FOR CLARITY
    If you please, format your answers:

    Q1 “your answer”
    Q2 “your answer”
    Followed by anything else you'd like to mention.

    At the end, thanks for reading!


  2. #2
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    23rd March 2007 - 22:40
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    800 vtwin
    yes

    my mentality (naive, young and probably wrong) tells me I wouldn't want a single 400cc

  3. #3
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    21st April 2006 - 10:10
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    800cc, bigger is better... kinda... would be more fun
    No, singles are fucken sexy

    i want an 800 single... do it, big oversquare thumper MONSTER! man that would kick galactic ass!

    But that probably wont happen cause its not sensible

    I would seriously say knock 150 cc off the 400 single and make MILLIONS in the NZ market

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave- View Post
    I wouldn't want a single 400cc

    but, but, but... why not?! singles are so mega super sexy-awesome

  5. #5
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    Hey! Who's disrespecting thumpers?

    400cc single for sure

    You mention offroad. Surely the thumper has packaging benefits too?

  6. #6
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    how about a 250cc single...500cc twin...1000cc v-four???

    lord knows we need more options in the learner catagoriy..so a 250 would be a good plan... 500 v-twin..awesome option for a supermotard or niche sports bike...two small pistons...should have a high rev ceiling capability for horsepower...and a 1000cc V-four...well...nothing needs to be said about the application of that!!


    anyway...I'll pop back tomorrow and tyr to answer your questions genuwinly with a lower blood alchol level..lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Given the short comings of my riding style, it doesn't matter what I'm riding till I've got my shit in one sock.

  7. #7
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    21st November 2004 - 23:26
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    Depends on the bike it's going in.
    A 400 v-twin seems a waste of engineering in any case. 400 cc thumper is fun, 600 is more fun. 800cc might be OTT or not??
    Insert witticism.

  8. #8
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    A 250cc setup coupled with a Quasimoto style marketing system and you'd be rollin' in it.

    Or you could just create a great big stonkin' single...


    //EDIT: I love how people neg rep for the most innocent posts - u aer teh suck idot dnt have bike1!
    Wear QUASiMOTO !

  9. #9
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    i vote for the great big stonkin' single

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo-cop View Post
    Hi!

    INTRO
    Looking for some input – some marketing information in essence – the central question being: What would you want?

    The major issue here is to the v-twin cachet versus single ie whether the benefits implied by the first option may or may not outweigh those of the second.

    Design balances road cruising with off-road capability – in neither case intended as a specialist or high performance powerplant – and with a high focus on reliability, ease of maintenance, and light-weight.

    TWO OPTIONS
    I'm developing a particular engine for motorcycle application. The designs themselves being advanced enough that I need to focus increasingly on the potential marketing – especially as this begins to impact on design.

    There are two avenues down which to continue development:

    The first being based on a single cylinder 400cc engine and an 800cc v-twin product line
    - the production benefit here is in utilising many of the same components in each unit – at the most basic, the 800 could use exactly the same components as the 400, with one extra cylinder. This simplifies maintenance of the range, reducing production complexity, and cost to customers of around 20%.

    The second option is based on a 400cc v-twin and 800cc v-twin
    - the two engines would be unlikely to share more than a bare minimum of components – with costs increased accordingly, as well as increasing the lead time to market – essentially, I'd be developing two different engines, as opposed to the one (with options) in the first case.

    QUESTIONS
    My main questions are these:

    Whether you chose a 400 or 800 model, how strongly would the v-twin aspect of it's design feature in your decision?

    Would the single cylinder aspect of the 400 put you off – as opposed to a 2+ cylinder 400?

    Finally, I'd be very interested in your thoughts on the subject – as they may not fall into those two questions.

    FORMAT FOR CLARITY
    If you please, format your answers:

    Q1 “your answer”
    Q2 “your answer”
    Followed by anything else you'd like to mention.

    At the end, thanks for reading!

    Q1 My answer- I'd go with this. As you've mentioned components will be common and 400cc fits the Jap market well.

    Owning a 400 single myself I do see the benifits. Once you're in production and things are going well the 800cc line could be scaled down (or up for that matter) like Ducati did. Make sure the crank/gearbox assy is over engineered and you'll be right I should imagine.

    Q2 My answer- See question one although a v-twin 400 would be a hoot.


    All the best in your venture.

    Oh and seasons greetings.

  11. #11
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    q1 with the 800, a fair bit. With the 400 not at all
    q2 no, i'd see it as an advantage
    400 single and 800 vtwin.
    With the off-road capability anyone focusing on this will go with the 400 single, and anyone looking at the road side of it will go with the 800 twin. I don't believe that a 400 twin would be enough of an advantage to warrant the extra engineering...
    Drew for Prime Minister!

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo-cop View Post
    QUESTIONS
    My main questions are these:

    Whether you chose a 400 or 800 model, how strongly would the v-twin aspect of it's design feature in your decision?

    Would the single cylinder aspect of the 400 put you off – as opposed to a 2+ cylinder 400?

    People don't really read the questions do they?

    Q1: The v-twin aspect would definitely be a factor in me choosing either model.
    When time come for me to upgrade to a larger bike, I will definitely be looking for a v-twin...and at present options in the new sports bike market are limited....you've got the Suzuki SV, the Hyosungs, and a bunch of european models I can't afford...I can't think of any others.

    Q2: Yes
    Although I should quantify this, as I've never ridden a single cylinder bike...so I've managed to form an aversion purely based on heresay.

    Surely a lot of the design decision should come down to final application and the NZ market.
    What types of bikes will actually sell using a 400cc engine?
    I've read comments on here from people suggesting that in the road bike space, going to 400cc after the 250 learner period is a waste of time.
    Which suggests that the decision should be based on what the offroaders want.

  13. #13
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    Great project. 800cc + V Twin please. Smaller bikes ie 400cc.. not on the radar.. too big for a learner, same rego as an 800, ...hmm, like cowpoos said, look at a 250 maybe?
    David must play fair with the other kids, even the idiots.

  14. #14
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    I would be more interested in a 500cc thumper and a 1 litre v-twin. A 500cc modern thumper would be awesome as a commuter, I think that the extra 100cc would make a real difference.

  15. #15
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    V-Twins have been done to death.

    I reacon a big inline twin 800cc would be a better choice as it would be alot lighter and more compact powerplant. But then Laverda has already done it (but they no longer exist)

    If you are a NZ bike builder forget building motors and build a good bike for existing motors to go into like TIGcraft, Fisher etc have already done.

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