wtf?

**DMNTD:Me** · 15th January 2008, 10:32

Originally Posted by MotoGirl

Obviously the guys who're incapable of restraining themselves on the road. If they didn't think they were going to kill themselves why do they need the epiphany?

Everyone is capable,some just don't realise it yet.

BTW...it's not just about the people that ride fast,it's about all motorcyclists as we can all improve our current skill levels in all facets or motorcycling...take heed as you're included in that group too.
Being argumentative for the sake of it isn't going to help now is it?

**nodrog:Me** · 15th January 2008, 10:34

Originally Posted by MotoGirl

... If they didn't think they were going to kill themselves why do they need the epiphany?

this whole sentence is a contradiction!

**imdying** · 15th January 2008, 10:34

Originally Posted by MotoGirl

Obviously the guys who're incapable of restraining themselves on the road. If they didn't think they were going to kill themselves why do they need the epiphany?

I'm not sure it's fair to condemn people forever based on their present behaviour patterns... I mean, if that were the case, an epiphany wouldn't exist as a concept anyway.

**imdying** · 15th January 2008, 10:35

Originally Posted by DMNTD

[B]Everyone is capable,some just don't realise it yet.

Exactly... that's why it's an epiphany...

**madandy** · 15th January 2008, 10:37

Being upright and alive is a temporary state.
I reckon wisdom is knowing why you're upright and alive and how to imrove your odds of remaining upright and alive.

**MotoGirl** · 15th January 2008, 10:38

Originally Posted by Ixion

When someone like DMNTD says those things, it does carry weight. "Shit,he's real fast. If HE thinks that isn't on, maybe I should stop doing it/ slow down etc ".

I get what you're saying but it's only effective if that person practices what he/she preaches. If someone says "oooh, don't go fast" and they crash from excessive speed (hypothetical, not aimed at DMNTD), is anyone going to listen to that person?

Originally Posted by Ixion

So is it responsible for you to say "I don't need to change, so noone should be allowed to encourage those who DO need to change to do so" ?

If I recall correctly I said I had no problem with people trying to help others survive. I believe the actions of a dead man have more weight than those of a live man.

**MSTRS:Me** · 15th January 2008, 10:42

Originally Posted by MotoGirl

If I recall correctly I said I had no problem with people trying to help others survive. I believe the actions of a dead man have more weight than those of a live man.

Not so. It takes a live man to speak about the dead man's actions...

**imdying** · 15th January 2008, 10:43

Originally Posted by MotoGirl

I get what you're saying but it's only effective if that person practices what he/she preaches. If someone says "oooh, don't go fast" and they crash from excessive speed (hypothetical, not aimed at DMNTD), is anyone going to listen to that person?

To your mind, yes, however, I suspect that the inner workings of a male spotty youth on a sprotsbike might make your mind boggle though

Everyone isn't wired up the same

**MotoGirl** · 15th January 2008, 10:56

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Not so. It takes a live man to speak about the dead man's actions...

Not necessarily. Sometimes the dead man's actions are obvious just from seeing it.

Riding past an accident scene where a biker lays face down on the road while the spectators help the car driver who killed him is humbling enough. I don't then need someone to tell me to slow down because it's obvious what could happen to me if I don't ride defensively.

**MSTRS:Me** · 15th January 2008, 11:02

Originally Posted by MotoGirl

Not necessarily. Sometimes the dead man's actions are obvious just from seeing it.

Riding past an accident scene where a biker lays face down on the road while the spectators help the car driver who killed him is humbling enough. I don't then need someone to tell me to slow down because it's obvious what could happen to me if I don't ride defensively.

And of course, everyone here is going to be witness firsthand to that sort of thing....
Contrary to belief, fatal accidents are (still) quite rare. Most of us will never see one. And those that do, mostly all they will see is the aftermath. Which does not tell a story to anyone but the SCU, who also do not make their findings easily available to the public.

**MotoGirl** · 15th January 2008, 11:08

Originally Posted by DMNTD

Yeah but this is not about you MG...some others DO want to talk about it,learn from it,find out the causes of why it happened so they in turn can learn from such tragic events.

That's precisely my point. I've been saying all along that (I believe) we gain more from dissecting fatalities than we would from hearing that other riders just change their habits for the sake of it.

**imdying** · 15th January 2008, 11:11

Originally Posted by MotoGirl

That's precisely my point. I've been saying all along that (I believe) we gain more from dissecting fatalities than we would from hearing that other riders just change their habits for the sake of it.

You are quite right, some will. It's the some part that makes the difference though.

**ital916** · 15th January 2008, 11:17

Originally Posted by Ixion

Nobody deliberately sets out to become roadkill. (Well, maybe a few do, but that's a very special case).

And maybe you don't need to change your riding habits. Only you can decide that.

But , be aware that you only need to make one mistake, which may not even be your own fault, and you're going to die. Every time you (or any of us) start the bike, Death climbs on the pillion seat (No, not you Mr Death_inc. The skinny fellow).

Motorcycling is, for a lot of people , especially the younger ones, very concerned with peer emulation and peer approval.

An old Nanna like me telling people to slow down, be careful, ride defensively, doesn't carry much weight with the folk that need to hear the message. The unspoken response is "Yeah yeah, he's an old nanna , can't ride fast anyway so he wants everyone to slow down to his speed. Doesn't apply to me"

When someone like DMNTD says those things, it does carry weight. "Shit,he's real fast. If HE thinks that isn't on, maybe I should stop doing it/ slow down etc ".

So even if you don't need to change their riding habits , there are those who do. If that were not so, there wouldn't be any of the RIP threads. So is it responsible for you to say "I don't need to change, so noone should be allowed to encourage those who DO need to change to do so" ?

Haha don't worry ixion, i'm listening and yes when told to ride slow and be careful i do, but then i ride like a nana anyway for i intend to live a long happy motorcycling life. Lets get some other noobs posting up here about their opinions. Mines, ride slow, ride safe, burn rubber on the track, not your face on SH1. lol

**MotoGirl** · 15th January 2008, 11:25

OK, so maybe we should discuss the effectiveness of some real life examples. Take these scenarios as a start:
1) Valentino Rossi has decided not to exceed 80kph on the open road.

2) Valentino meets a Kenworth mincing machine because he didn't have enough speed to pass the car towing a caravan before he hit that truck head on. The largest piece of his remains is the size of a cob loaf.

In the first scenario, no one gives a flying fuck, and really, what message does it drive home? Valentino loves a good hoon on the track but he's a pussy on the road?

The second scenario, however, tells me a hoard of useful information. I know from reading it that I should check the coast is clear and only pass if I have sufficient room to do so. In this particular case, dissecting a fatality is more likely to have an impact.