Tar melt warning

**xwhatsit** · 15th January 2008, 22:24

SH22 had a fair bit of tar-bleed on Sunday, but thankfully it was only in the wheel tracks, so if you hit it you would only get pushed out so far. Still very unnerving, and I definitely backed off a lot.

**sAsLEX** · 15th January 2008, 22:25

Originally Posted by janno

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4357437a11.html

This is scary stuff.

I got my licence in Aus so have only ridden on hotmix in high summer temps. Surely it must cost Transit a fortune to be constantly repairing cruddy tar, rather than the initial higher outlay for hotmix?

Of course not. If you look at each financial year in isolation you will see they come in underbudget and receive their performance payouts....... not bonuses mind you, they are different.

No longer do they look long term and spend money now to save it later.

**Monsterbishi** · 16th January 2008, 05:50

Originally Posted by cold comfort

I was told by a friend, who has a mate who worked on the road gang, that they use 2nd grade tar here which is why the damn stuff melts at 20 deg. I cannot confirm the accuracy of this but it would explain a lot.

That's totally untrue, I work directly with the road gangs, and even the labrats who design the stuff.

I was out yesterday sweeping a couple of roads that we had to spread small chip on during the weekend due to the melt, today should be more fun - I've been out with the labrats this week testing a AC(hotmix) compound that is between 20-30% epoxy, costs six times more per ton to make, but has a useful life of 30+ years!

NZ Roads suffer because of the volcanic chip that most of our roads are built with, it retains the heat much longer than what other countries use, and there is simply no practical alternative with us being a pokey little island in the middle of nowhere.

**skidMark** · 16th January 2008, 06:27

Originally Posted by Sully60

There's no doubt about the lack of traction on hot melting tar.
It's the result of of the tar bleed that worries me.

The flushing caused by melted tar that's not subsequently repaired is the single most dangerous external factor when road riding in wet conditions IMO.

So you guys up there in warmer climes better be careful on that hot wet tar and REAL F&*KEN CAREFUL on the cold wet tar!

oh cmon drifting in the pissing wet in fun...

i mean yeah ya hearts in ya throat at the time....it's when you keep power even and the rear goes you worry..... because that usually mean the fron is probably gunna go to....if it hasn't already....

getting rear out under hard power and just going down the road for 100 metre with the arse out sideway on the limiter in 1st doing 20kph....

with a bald rear on a zxr250 lol

on leaving mission bay towards st heliers on that kickass right at 80 kph in 2nd gear doing 10k rpm entering....hitting apex (in the pissing wet) then a handful of gas to full throttle....then the rear kicks out.....and the pedestrian you are drifting at don't keep walking they don't run....they stand and stare, with a stoopid look on thier face with 160kg of bike coming sideways at them....

with 6 foot tall 63.5kg ride (me) going oh fuck if i dnt save this we are all proper fucked.

thats when drifting in wet is not fun...

oh and...never heard of tar melt before....

**tri boy** · 16th January 2008, 07:46

Originally Posted by Monsterbishi

NZ Roads suffer because of the volcanic chip that most of our roads are built with, it retains the heat much longer than what other countries use, and there is simply no practical alternative with us being a pokey little island in the middle of nowhere.

I'm sorry sir, but that is a load of bolloks.
Marble Bar, (Pilbara), has 4-5 months of temparatures in excess of 40 celsius DAILY.
The base rocks/sand hold massive amounts of heat.(raw iron ore, nickel etc).
The road Trains carry up to 200 tonne on Federal Plates, and often are rolling at 120kmh+.
These roads need little attention, besides regular patrols to remove blown truck tyres, roo/bullock carcasses removed, and signs replaced by wide loads wiping them out.
Our roads fail every year due to penny pinching, and incompetent govt leadership. I'm positive the engineers here would relish the opportunity to do a quality job, but the Govt doesn't care about long term goals.

**MSTRS:Me** · 16th January 2008, 08:04

Originally Posted by Monsterbishi

That's totally untrue, I work directly with the road gangs, and even the labrats who design the stuff.

I was out yesterday sweeping a couple of roads that we had to spread small chip on during the weekend due to the melt, today should be more fun - I've been out with the labrats this week testing a AC(hotmix) compound that is between 20-30% epoxy, costs six times more per ton to make, but has a useful life of 30+ years!

NZ Roads suffer because of the volcanic chip that most of our roads are built with, it retains the heat much longer than what other countries use, and there is simply no practical alternative with us being a pokey little island in the middle of nowhere.

Utter tripe! It is shonky quality tar that is the problem. A system that is designed to be installed at the cheapest rate possible, and damn the repairs because they come from a different (hidden?) budget. I, too, have contacts in the roading industry.

**MSTRS:Me** · 16th January 2008, 08:12

Originally Posted by janno

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4357437a11.html

This is scary stuff.

I got my licence in Aus so have only ridden on hotmix in high summer temps. Surely it must cost Transit a fortune to be constantly repairing cruddy tar, rather than the initial higher outlay for hotmix?

"....Mr Hart said the difficulty some drivers experienced also related to how hot the truck's tyres were – if they had been driving a long time, or at high speeds, the vehicle was at more risk of struggling to get traction on melting bitumen..."
What a load of unmitigated bollocks!!!
A poor attempt to shift blame for Transit's poor quality road. If a truck travels at 90kph for 50kms, it's tyres will be the same temperature as if it travelled 500kms. Tarmelt occurs because the sun/air is hotter than the melting point of the tar used. No vehicles driving on it will make it melt more, only lift the chip and expose the tar itself.

**Blue Velvet** · 16th January 2008, 08:29

SH2, Waioeka Gorge (Opotiki to Gisborne) is slippery. Some road works at a couple of places (6 Jan).

SH1 (Desert Road) had loose gravel spread on it in places (11 Jan), be careful if you're riding it in the dark as it wasn't sign posted.

SH30 (Te Kuiti to Whakamaru)
SH32/SH41 (Whakamaru to Tokaanu)
SH47 (Tokaanu to National Park)
SH4 (National Park to Tohunga Junction)
SH54 (Vinegar Hill to Aorangi)

All OK (13 Jan).

$0.02

**madandy** · 16th January 2008, 08:40

Originally Posted by Monsterbishi

That's totally untrue, I work directly with the road gangs, and even the labrats who design the stuff.

I was out yesterday sweeping a couple of roads that we had to spread small chip on during the weekend due to the melt, today should be more fun - I've been out with the labrats this week testing a AC(hotmix) compound that is between 20-30% epoxy, costs six times more per ton to make, but has a useful life of 30+ years!

NZ Roads suffer because of the volcanic chip that most of our roads are built with, it retains the heat much longer than what other countries use, and there is simply no practical alternative with us being a pokey little island in the middle of nowhere.

Bullshit.

The melting point of the Tar is too low due to your lab rat mates fucking up the brew. It's diluted.
Like MSTRS I too have contacts in the roading buisness.
Go walk bare foot on a blue chip road in Aussie. Its a LOT hotter than the road surface here and the tar doesn't melt.
You gonna try & blame the UV index of the Kiwi sun now?

.

**Badjelly** · 16th January 2008, 08:57

On another KB thread I was informed, by someone who sounded like he knew what he was talking about, that it's bitumen these days, not tar:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitumen

**Iain** · 16th January 2008, 10:21

Hey all,

Considering the amount of construction and road repaving going on in my area of late, I thought Id ask; once riding over a freshly paved road, whether its hot or not, is there anything to consider in regards to stuff still on the tires?

Does the bitumen stick to the tires for any length of time - do I need to consider that Ive just riden over it when I come to the next corner?

Thanks all!

Iain

**MSTRS:Me** · 16th January 2008, 10:56

Originally Posted by Badjelly

On another KB thread I was informed, by someone who sounded like he knew what he was talking about, that it's bitumen these days, not tar:

Doubt it. Bitumen is also known as asphalt. No added chip on top. If all roads were sealed this way, we would be in Nirvana.
Note it's boiling point of 525 degrees Celsius....the Bay gets hot, but considerably less than that.

**Angusdog** · 16th January 2008, 11:54

It's not the boiling point, but the melting point which is causing the problem.

There must be a week or two during the year when there isn't melted tar, flooding or ice on the road...