Well this is different....

[90s]

I would hope that I could be so gracious and forgiving in the same circumstances.

This family's reaction is a good thing IMO and should be lauded. Vengeance achieves nothing. Vengeance dressed as justice is an evil unto itself.

Maybe "we" really are growing up, if people can be this forgiving.

Where is the point between this and the inability to take personal liability for your actions?
I forgive fault when error is reasonable. This is laudable. I do not forgive where it is clear all along to the person what outcome their actions may cause.
It is not "grown-ups" who can't take responsibility, and give constructive criticism - even blame when fair.
With no accountabiliyt backed up (in extreme vengeance) then there is no incentive for considering anyone else but yourself. By abitary or institutional means people should pay for their mistakes. As someone with family members who have been cripled and killed by drunk drivers I have no sympathy for how they or their families feel about the 'trauma' they suffered, or physical injury. If I were to do the same I would expect no sympathy from others. I would hope KB would condemn me.
But discussing things along these lines might mean this dissappears with the last thread where how you pay for your actions was discussed.

[Kendog]

Death by PowerPoint.

Let's hope they don't let them drive immediately afterwards. In that sleepy state who knows what would happen.

[James Deuce]

Where is the point between this and the inability to take personal liability for your actions?

I forgive fault when error is reasonable. This is laudable. I do not forgive where it is clear all along to the person what outcome their actions may cause.

It is not "grown-ups" who can't take responsibility, and give constructive criticism - even blame when fair.

With no accountabiliyt backed up (in extreme vengeance) then there is no incentive for considering anyone else but yourself. By abitary or institutional means people should pay for their mistakes. As someone with family members who have been cripled and killed by drunk drivers I have no sympathy for how they or their families feel about the 'trauma' they suffered, or physical injury. If I were to do the same I would expect no sympathy from others. I would hope KB would condemn me.

But discussing things along these lines might mean this dissappears with the last thread where how you pay for your actions was discussed.

He's taken personal responsibility. He has has made a Guilty plea, despite not being able to remember what the person standing next to him said 20 seconds ago. He has said he is willing to accept his punishment. What more do you want?

No punishment a court imposes will fix his injuries or bring back the dead dude. Sounds like a very clever very hard working chap, doing what one of us might reasonably do when in another country. It just went wrong for him.

Ever had your life's course altered by a single event?

[90s]

Ever had your life's course altered by a single event?

I think I posted the answer to that in my last post.

So do you take responsibility for your actions before you do them - and avoid running into trouble that you could avoid - or do you knowingly do the wrong thing and getting caught out "own up" and now eveything is OK?

- man comes into your house and beats you. He knows its wrong. He is fully culpable. He is caught. He admits his guilt. He pays the price.

But that's OK - you forgive?

[90s]

It would help you to get over it.

Until the next person did the same thing.

I'm not sure my dead family members would actually want me to get over it either to be honnest.

There was a reason in "the old days" that people were shunned even after they admitted guilt and 'did the time'. Did it stop more people doing things they knew would carry long-term consequences?
(or create a hard-core underclass?)

My I am getting into some heavy weight gloom and deabte this morning. I'll have lunch in a minute and then I'll be better. Outa here.

[SPman]

I know of at least 2 Kiwi bike riders, killed in the USA in exactly the same circumstances - automatically going onto the wrong side of the road and having head ons. It works both ways!
With a car, at least you have a reminder - keep the steering wheel by the white line, on a bike, it's sooooo easy to relapse to your naturally ingrained response.
I just think it's tragic, all round.

[James Deuce]

But that's OK - you forgive?

Yes. It is imperative that you do or it will ruin your life and those around you.

[James Deuce]

Until the next person did the same thing.

I'm not sure my dead family members would actually want me to get over it either to be honnest.

There was a reason in "the old days" that people were shunned even after they admitted guilt and 'did the time'. Did it stop more people doing things they knew would carry long-term consequences?
(or create a hard-core underclass?)

My I am getting into some heavy weight gloom and deabte this morning. I'll have lunch in a minute and then I'll be better. Outa here.

That's because people were small minded, had small worlds, small expectations, and little experience outside what life "should" be. Shit happens. How you deal with it speaks volumes about you. Forever dwelling on the bad stuff will mess you up worse than the fictitious bloke who broke into your house and beat you up.

Revenge fantasies are for sickos.

[jafar]

She convicted McBrien and ordered him to make an immediate payment of $10,000 for emotion harm to Mr Gordon's family.

Last month, an Austrian tourist admitted flipping a campervan and hitting four motorcyclists in South Canterbury

The three tourists have admitted six deaths caused by careless driving in the last six weeks. Five of the six killed have been motorcyclists.

He should appeal , the Austrian tourist only had to pay $8,000 per victim.

[Conquiztador]

Yes. It is imperative that you do (forgive) or it will ruin your life and those around you.

Forgiveness is badly overrated

[sAsLEX]

There are already roads in areas that tourists visit that have big arrows painted on the road so that if you suddenly find your self on the RH side you will be driving/riding against the arrow painted on the road.

The UK has them often on all the roads I drove over there, maybe we need more?

[Conquiztador]

And the incident that killed the most motorcyclists could have just as easily been caused by an average slack-jawed inattentive Kiwi driver...the nationality of the driver had bugger-all to do with her actions.

It could have. But it was not. And if she had not been allowed to drive, they would all be alive today...