Attacking Transit on another front:

[sunhuntin]

why do you need to see local stats when overseas statistics are screaming loudly? why not follow what most countries are doing NOW instead of what they tried, and subsequently scrapped, 5 years ago?

every single biker is aware of the thousands of hazards that await us, and many ride with the reaper on the pillion seat, but we dont need another hazard put in the name of safety. most hazards will allow us to walk away, or, at worst, be carried away in an ambo for months of rehab. wrb do not allow many that luxury.

[RatBags]

For the sake of clarity, that is a sword, not the m/c model....

Thanks MSTRS I thought most would know a Katana was a Japnese sword.

Any way
have a look here

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=711459

The mazda went under the WRB's and killed 3 teens.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=690243
read this one as it refers to another WRB failure a few months earlier.
http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/11766821.html

[Reckless]

Yungtart - while it makes us feel special that you single out Transit for your attentions, there are over 50 road controlling authorities in New Zealand, who build and maintain far more of the roading network than Transit does. We don`t have any control over their actions, nor have much (if any say) in how they maintain their networks. You could even think of us as a minority RCA if it helps......

And I for one actually sympathise with you and congratulate you on fronting up, having this discussion, having the balls to do the tests etc.
Thank-you! For listening and doing!!!
Operating under a system where 50 authorities are possibly doing things slightly differently must be as frustrating to you as reading that here, we have managed to get through to one engineer through his biking allegiances with us. Realise things where not correct and change the angles of those signs. Only to be told that the other 49 road controlling authorities will probably still do it the old way because there is no one with over all control. And they wonder why we are showing a bit of anger and frustration at transit and the bureaucracy over our roading issues!

This is why the testing was not done beforehand - as we followed a) manufacturers guidelines and b) int. best practise.......

But with regards to cheesegraters from what I have read here they are not (as here) even being installed to "a) manufacturers guidelines and b) int. best practise."

Would be a nice world if I could foresee every problem before implementation / construction and eliminate them - i`d be paid a hell of a lot more thats for certain...

We are telling you straight out "THEY WILL KILL MOTORCYCLISTS EVERYTIME"
Its a conundrum how you guys need stats, but to provide them over time we have to die or get injured.
I wonder if there is going to be a stat in 10 years that says "WRB's have saved 98% of head on injury accidents but 98% if motorcyclists who have hit them have died or been mangled.

We would find this unacceptable! But we are part of the dieing 98%! Funny that!!

[MSTRS:Me]

Thinking about this 'no statistical evidence' bullshit....
When a car manufacturer releases a new model, and someone has a 'problem', perhaps a minor steering shimmy at 102.5kph on a chipseal road, the entire new fleet is recalled and fixed. Could this be not because of a dangerous problem, but rather that there has been a problem for one person in certain situations, and the car manufacturer is open to being sued, otherwise?
Hmmm??

[Ocean1]

Thinking about this 'no statistical evidence' bullshit....
When a car manufacturer releases a new model, and someone has a 'problem', perhaps a minor steering shimmy at 102.5kph on a chipseal road, the entire new fleet is recalled and fixed. Could this be not because of a dangerous problem, but rather that there has been a problem for one person in certain situations, and the car manufacturer is open to being sued, otherwise?
Hmmm??

Yeah, good luck suing a NZ gov't authority. Having said that I wouldn't want the ridiculously litigious Merkin culture here, just adds massive extra costs to the CPI.

There was a time, though, when authorities here set standards as workable targets, that was their main purpose. Now most of them decline all such responsibility, they just wait for a fuckup, and then hammer all concerned.

Sorry, pet gripe…

[WelshWizard]

Any way
have a look here



The mazda went under the WRB's and killed 3 teens.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=690243





read this one as it refers to another WRB failure a few months earlier.
http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/11766821.html

This is to good to miss, as it show that the WRBs are flawed.

from the above link

Barrier failure may be 1st in state
Cars rarely go under cables, engineer says
By LAWRENCE SUSSMAN
lsussman@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Nov. 26, 2007
The failure of a freeway median barrier in a crash that killed two teenagers in Ozaukee County is rare and might be the first of its kind in Wisconsin, a state highway engineer said Monday.
---------------
The median barrier was installed to prevent such crossover crashes, which have occurred with shocking frequency on a small stretch of Ozaukee County freeway. Eight people have now died in five crossover crashes on the seven-mile section of I-43 since November 2005.
---------------------------
Of the 9,228 fatal accidents in Wisconsin from 1994 through 2006, 240 of them involved a median traffic barrier, U.S. Department of Transportation data shows. That's 2.6% of all fatal accidents in the state. The state DOT does not keep data on accidents involving cable barriers.

Such crashes in which vehicles go under cable barriers have occurred in other states

So it not a one off at all, SO HOW FAULTY are these things if they let cars through, let lorries run over top off them and Cut Motorcyclist into sections

[MSTRS:Me]

Yeah, good luck suing a NZ gov't authority.

That's exactly my point.
A shareholder, for-profit business cannot afford to have a product that is not safe as designed, for purpose intended, and will generally fix it at the first sign of trouble 'just in case'....
But a company (shall we say?) like Transit, which cannot be sued and uses statistics to hide behind, is impossible to hold to account over their decisions. So we are left with only two options...Wait until the stats prove our point (sorry to all those devastated families). OR Mobilise the motoring public by any and all means to make enough noise that Transit is directed by Govt to make the changes reqd.

[sAsLEX]

Thinking about this 'no statistical evidence' bullshit....
When a car manufacturer releases a new model, and someone has a 'problem', perhaps a minor steering shimmy at 102.5kph on a chipseal road, the entire new fleet is recalled and fixed. Could this be not because of a dangerous problem, but rather that there has been a problem for one person in certain situations, and the car manufacturer is open to being sued, otherwise?
Hmmm??

Four words for you to google.

Lee Iacocca Ford Pinto

[MSTRS:Me]

Four words for you to google.

Lee Iacocca Ford Pinto

Sombre reading. And this response seems to be applicable to our issue...
I dont think Mark is dissing on the Pinto per se... its about corporate responsibility and the fact that their cost benefit analysis produced such unethical behaviour... I didnt think that because you love ur car would override recognition of the fact that the company's management itself would act so unethically... but obviously ethics dont matter to some people and this is how companies like this can continue to exist.. we allow them to. The social contract between businesses and society is purely profit maximisation... And its people like this who show businesses society in general doesnt give a crap about corporate social responsibility or environmental responsibility as long as they get their relative bang for the buck. Try saying how great ur Pinto is to one of the people who died in them due to negligent manufacturing... oh wait u cant...
Posted by:ChristelleOctober 16, 2007 3:44:42 PMRespond ^

[Ocean1]

Four words for you to google.

Lee Iacocca Ford Pinto

More: Ralph Nader Chevrolet Corvair.

That's exactly my point.
A shareholder, for-profit business cannot afford to have a product that is not safe as designed, for purpose intended, and will generally fix it at the first sign of trouble 'just in case'....
But a company (shall we say?) like Transit, which cannot be sued and uses statistics to hide behind, is impossible to hold to account over their decisions. So we are left with only two options...Wait until the stats prove our point (sorry to all those devastated families). OR Mobilise the motoring public by any and all means to make enough noise that Transit is directed by Govt to make the changes reqd.

Your point wasn't lost, but this particular battle is difficult enough without the diversion of tilting at bigger windmills.

[WelshWizard]

Another motorcyclist killed by WRB's on January 08, 2008
http://www.news.com.au/mercury/story...007221,00.html

forget about the claimed speed, once again they are wrong, when the formula is used the bike was not going that fast, but with out seeing the crash scene first hand it can not be completly acurate.

[MSTRS:Me]

Another motorcyclist killed by WRB's on January 08, 2008


forget about the claimed speed, once again they are wrong, when the formula is used the bike was not going that fast, but with out seeing the crash scene first hand it can not be completly acurate.

This is one of those cases...'high speed' not actually specified. However, if the bike slid 214m after the impact, I would tend to agree that the speed was up there. Looking at the wreck, it wasn't a low speed impact. I suspect that any barrier-type would have had a similar outcome, at least to the rider. Still, on a straight piece of mw, what happened to send him into the barrier?

[Ocean1]

This is one of those cases...'high speed' not actually specified. However, if the bike slid 214m after the impact, I would tend to agree that the speed was up there. Looking at the wreck, it wasn't a low speed impact. I suspect that any barrier-type would have had a similar outcome, at least to the rider. Still, on a straight piece of mw, what happened to send him into the barrier?

Seems I read recently that a surprisijngly high number of fatal bike accidents occur on straights. And while I agree about the likely outcome with any other type of barrier, and without wanting to get too morbid I wonder what caused the fatal injuries. Posts do you suppose?

[MSTRS:Me]

Seems I read recently that a surprisijngly high number of fatal bike accidents occur on straights. And while I agree about the likely outcome with any other type of barrier, and without wanting to get too morbid I wonder what caused the fatal injuries. Posts do you suppose?

Probably. With horrendous injuries. Think 'mince'....Hence the counselling offered to all who witnessed it.

[WelshWizard]

This is one of those cases...'high speed' not actually specified. However, if the bike slid 214m after the impact, I would tend to agree that the speed was up there. Looking at the wreck, it wasn't a low speed impact. I suspect that any barrier-type would have had a similar outcome, at least to the rider. Still, on a straight piece of mw, what happened to send him into the barrier?

Well I would say that he was doing less than 100kph,
when you work out stopping speed on rubber over that distance you have to divide that distance speed by a factor related to the surface friction of what was on the road, commonly this works out at about a divisor of three, with out seeing the crash scene to know if the wheel was smashed of by the WRBs or the Armco at the end of the slide, and any markings on the road you can't always use the common formula, but have to use different input.

So as I said first reaction regardless of damage to the bike is it was traveling at less than a 100kph when it went down. if the driver was thrown from the bike and he hit the barrier and the bike failed to go down completely and the bikes damage was caused when it hit the Armco then the speed would be increased by the weight to damage level all part of the engineering crash program that calculates the speed, ( program has one failing it only calculates in MPH so every thing has to be converted to imperial before getting the speed in mph and then convert it back to metric a real pain.)