Countersteering

[GSVR]

Im inferring that the front end of those fuckers had a mind of their own, Ask Scrivy.
I followed him for many hard out kays, him on an EFE & me on a 19inch wheel Katana 1100, he was a one man freakshow, not that it ever slowed him down.

So you talked about it and decided to go for something more stable with 3 wheels and now you guys are a two man freakshow?

[sidecar bob]

So you talked about it and decided to go for something more stable with 3 wheels and now you guys are a two man freakshow?

You know it!!! Like it says on our sidecar, "Bring On The Freakshow"

[rwh]

So why did Yamaha reverse the rotation of the crankshaft on their MotoGP bike a few seasons ago?

Hmm. I hadn't heard about that, but thinking for a moment, if you accelerate the engine backwards while accelerating the bike (and the wheels) forwards, you'll reduce the tendency to lift the front wheel. You'll also reduce the weight (and hence traction) on the rear, but I guess they've got enough.

Richard

[GSVR]

Hmm. I hadn't heard about that, but thinking for a moment, if you accelerate the engine backwards while accelerating the bike (and the wheels) forwards, you'll reduce the tendency to lift the front wheel. You'll also reduce the weight (and hence traction) on the rear, but I guess they've got enough.

Richard

Or maybe they just wanted to change from a geared primary drive to a chain driven one or viceversa. The direction the crankshaft rotates can't have that huge an effect on the handling of the bike. As I said I don't know.

[jrandom]

The direction the crankshaft rotates can't have that huge an effect on the handling of the bike.

Ever sat on a Rocket III and blipped the engine hard in neutral?

[rwh]

Ever sat on a Rocket III and blipped the engine hard in neutral?

Noticeable on a Guzzi or a BMW too (no I haven't tried the rocket).

Richard

[90s]

The gyroscope thing is all crap. The lighter your wheels are the better a bike is to steer. Gyroscopic effects are counterproductive to riding.

First this - a bike is gryoscopic forces. Controlling them is riding. How can they be counterproductive?

Top racebikes don't have carbon fibre rims fitted because they look good. As well as the lightness making the bike turn better they accellerate and brake better with less moving mass.

You are confusing wheel size and weight with the effects of sprung and unsprung mass. Lightening wheels often has the effect of reducing the unsprung mass - leading to the effects you describe. Reductions in sprung mass do not have nearly as much effect on handling, acceleration etc. Suspension placement and design is as important in this as anything else.

[GSVR]

First this - a bike is gryoscopic forces. Controlling them is riding. How can they be counterproductive?

Gyroscopic forces make steering heavier at higher speeds making a bike less manuvourable and flickable. Any reducion of these forces has to be an improvement on any performance motorcycle. Infact I would go so far as to say a bike without any gyroscopic forces (impossible) would handle best.

You are confusing wheel size and weight with the effects of sprung and unsprung mass. Lightening wheels often has the effect of reducing the unsprung mass - leading to the effects you describe.

OFTEN? Could you give me one example of when lightening a wheel doesn't have the effect of reducing unsprung mass?

Reductions in sprung mass do not have nearly as much effect on handling, acceleration etc. Suspension placement and design is as important in this as anything else.

Depends if its rotating mass or not? Reducing the mass of a flywheel or crankshaft can make a bike accelerate much more effectively and the reduction in gyroscopic effect will make the bike handle better as well.

Some of this I replied to just because I couldn't resist but it has nothing to do with the previous posts just like Rocket III's.

[90s]

Some of this I replied to just because I couldn't resist but it has nothing to do with the previous posts just like Rocket III's.

Well, it is the countersteering thread, which On-topic.

A bike without gryscopic forces is a sledge. It doesn't have wheels, which is why you say it is impossible. All forces resist change, ie inertia, so a heavier bike and wheels = more sluggish as you suggest, although the advantage of a bike over a sledge is you can use those forces to your advantage. In this quest, using gyros will probably be your best bet, minimising unsprung weight and excess weight elsewhere first.

Strange discussion this. No CS without gryros.
I would rather ride a bike than a sledge
(OT but did you know Murphy of Murpy's law fame might agree having been a rocket sledge tester?)

[GSVR]

Strange discussion this. No CS without gryros.
I would rather ride a bike than a sledge

I was thinking more along the lines of the less gyro effect the better a bike would steer so the closer you get to zero the better.

But since you brought up the sledge model have you seen those snow bikes?

Basically a bike with a ski on the back and front.(no gyro). How do these get steered going down the mountain at say 50KPH ? Well its not countersteering according to you?

[Monsterbishi]

I was thinking more along the lines of the less gyro effect the better a bike would steer so the closer you get to zero the better.

You're quite right here, it's the design principal behind the two counter rotating cranks of Motoczyz' prototype GP Bike engine.

[MVnut]

Noticeable on a Guzzi or a BMW too (no I haven't tried the rocket).

Richard

MGS 01 no balance shafts=fun fun fun

[roogazza]

So i assume from that, that you have never ridden a 16 inch front wheel GSX1135EFE in anger then.

yes , weren't they a prick of a thing ?

I really liked my 19 inch front wheel bikes, GSX1100 of 1980 and Mach 4 Kawasaki. Gaz.

[discotex]

You're quite right here, it's the design principal behind the two counter rotating cranks of Motoczyz' prototype GP Bike engine.

That and the crank/flywheels are spinning 90 degrees to the wheels.

I'd be interested to know what proportion of the gyroscopic stability is generated by the crank/flywheel vs the wheels on a standard bike at high RPM/speed.

[Tall Learner]

Excellent cartoon, .....question the centrifugal force aspect!?:

Ahhm sorry mista but unless ur an american there aint no such thing as centrifugal force. . . . .Its centrepital ACTUALLY hahaha but wat sad fuk would notice that in a post???


Not me definatly...............

Il go crawl in a hole and study physics or sumthn hahaha