Buggered handling (Pilot Road 2)

**jrandom** · 29th January 2008, 15:48

Originally Posted by Grahameeboy

don't the 2's have the same....Dan can no doubt fill me in on whether that is correct.

Yup, the Pilot Road 2s are 2CT also, softer compounds on the sides.

They certainly grip well for a 'sport touring' tyre. I had nary a wiggle from the rear on the track on Saturday, even when applying a fair whack of throttle while cranked right over with pegs dragging.

**RantyDave** · 29th January 2008, 15:53

Originally Posted by jrandom

I assume you're talking about preload, there.

No, sorry. The rear is six clicks compression and rebound, preload is allegedly fixed (the manual warns about the coming of the apocalypse if you mess with ti). Front is four clicks compression and rebound, and I took the preload from five rings down to one.

I think putting it at factory default and working outwards might be a good plan.

And, yes, it had struck me that what I might be experiencing is tyres that actually function correctly - and that I had adjusted both the suspension and my riding style to suit. Certainly once the tyres start wearing appreciably one needs to dangle off the side of the trumf a bit to get it to corner happily. Perhaps I've set things up to rely on the front a bit too much...

Dave

**phoenixgtr** · 29th January 2008, 15:53

Hmmm...I love my PR2. I've had one on the rear (Pilot Sport on the front) for only a couple of weeks now but it's been a huge improvement. My confidence has shot up!! I used to have a Bridgestone Battlax BT 014 on the rear. It should have been a bloody good tyre but I hated it

**RantyDave** · 29th January 2008, 15:58

Originally Posted by jrandom

Maybe RantyDave should pop by a bike shop and take a fully stock demo bike of some sort similar to his out for a spin

There was an R6 demonstrator calling me. It was quiet, but had a siren song all of it's own. It sang:

"Daaaaaaave,
Daaaaaaave,
Take me for a fang.
The Haywards are calling,
The Takas miss you dearly,
See how well I trail brake,
Daaaaaaave,
Daaaaaaave,
The mortgage doesn't matter,
Deal with retirement later,
The kids are too dumb for uni anyway,
She'll forgive you, it'll be fine,
Daaaaaave,
Daaaaaave"

And so on. Strangely all I got from an Aprilia RSV was a vaguely disdainful look.

Dave

**idb** · 29th January 2008, 15:59

I've got Powers all 'round at the moment but my rear is shagged (ooerrr...!).
I was thinking of putting a Road 2 on next since I ride like a nana anyway and I'll hopefully get a few more ks.
I usually get 5k out of the rear...has anyone worn out a R2 yet under road conditions only, and how long did it take?

**Grub** · 29th January 2008, 16:00

Originally Posted by RantyDave

On my previous tyres I'd taken a buttload of preload off - possibly effectively lowering the front - and this had helped turn in. I just went for a quick ride with a spanner and ended up putting almost all the preload back on. This helped quite a bit but now the suspension feels, well, like it's got loads of preload on. Kinda stiff, really.

I was wondering if anyone had felt this before and might have some pointers on what to do. I'm tempted to push the forks down the triple clamp by a couple of mill, then taking the preload off again. It might also pay to play around with tyre pressures, I guess. Any ideas?

Dave

All this pissing about with preload and ride-height settings without really having a clue about the science behind it and the design settings for your bike with you on it, just sends shivers up my spine. It sounds like you now have good tyres and crap bike setup.

There's a designed amount of sag front & rear for that bike. Find out what it is, get a mate and measure it all up with you on it. Then don't touch it - it's the compression and rebound settings that you can fiddle with. (For my bike the required preload sag is 35mm front and rear, no argument, no options. )

**Subike** · 29th January 2008, 16:06

Its been interesting reading all the threads on tyre wear, grip, roll, countersteer, and all those other things that tyres do.
Digressing a bit to cages.
In the past I fount that different tyres reacted differently on different weight cars ( bloody differences)
One manufactures tyre was great on one car but shit on another,
Example is the old Dunlop Aquajets, on a light to medium car they were crap, but on a medium to heavy car they were fantastic.
So I presume that the same theory applies to bike and tyres.
A lightweight 250 might be pertectly at home on a brand of tyres that totally feels crap on a tourer.
Yes the manufactures produce tyres with xyz specifications, claims of this that and a wow factor if you use them....
But really, does it come down to each bike being a differing weight. length and suspension set up?
A set of Avons may be perfect on a modern trumpy, but a suzie of the same size and gender may find them crap!
I think that it is good to seek out those who own and ride the equivalent of your personal ride and ask their experiance before embarking on a tyre brand change.
Fair to say there have been some major improvements in the tyre construction in recent years, but remember these improvements have been tested on NEW rides, not the 5 - 30 year old ride you are proud of tossing around the twisty bits, within the limits of course.
So seek the good advice from riders of your own bike model, not the guy who wants to part you with that $350 for the best tyre on the market...
The so called worst tyre on the market may just be the ""perfect"" tyre for your ride. then again Black Pete down the road with that Guzzie the same as you has found that such&such a tyre gives the best ride, miles away from where you thought the best performance tyre was.
Forget the tyres that the race guys use unless you are a race guy and race.
Different conditions on the highway, heaps different.
A Yamaha $#@%1000 that Rossi rides at 300KPH+ may perform well on Bridgestone xyz, but your road equivalent wont,
Just my thoughts ,
please pick holes in my theory, as I am keen for information on tyres to suit my own ride.

**jrandom** · 29th January 2008, 16:06

You know, I've never ridden on a Bridgestone I liked. Or a Dunlop, for that matter.

Strokes and folks, though. Some weirdos (cough, Enigma and ManDownUnder, cough) seem to love the things. Bridgestones, that is. Nobody in their right mind likes Dunlops.

Also, I'm not a fan of Pilot Powers on sprotbikes when compared to Sportec M3s - I don't like the glassy lack of road feel. The PR2s, though, seem to feel just fine, which could have something to do with the fact that I'm on a big, heavy bike.

Race tyres of any brand are always awesome to ride on. Pity they only last for the equivalent of about one and a half rides around the block.

**Grub** · 29th January 2008, 16:10

Originally Posted by RantyDave

I think putting it at factory default and working outwards might be a good plan.

My Honda Service Agent got caught doing that to my bike. The 'book' says 5 rings for the front. It was just plain dangerous. What they hadn't taken into account was that the bike has done 45k's and the springs have gone soft (or someone's been dicking with them). We set them by measuring and the answer was 1 ring.

The Apocalypse is nigh

**RantyDave** · 29th January 2008, 16:11

Originally Posted by Grub

All this pissing about with preload and ride-height settings without really having a clue about the science behind it and the design settings for your bike with you on it, just sends shivers up my spine

Yeah, I know. The science behind the "remove preload" theory was that as the forks shorten, so the bike turns more. The "remove preload" practice was that it worked a treat - regardless of how I didn't really give a sh*t.

OK. I give up. I'll set it to factory and take it round the block. Give me ten...

Dave

**RantyDave** · 29th January 2008, 16:32

Originally Posted by RantyDave

I'll set it to factory and take it round the block.

Yeah, that's the biscuit. Rear stiffer than the front obviously encourages the front into corners. I get a tiny bit of it now, but the bike feels a lot happier. I also seemed to be, how do I say it, carrying a little more speed than usual.

My problem now is chicken strips

Dave

**RantyDave** · 29th January 2008, 16:36

Originally Posted by jrandom

I'm not a fan of Pilot Powers on sprotbikes when compared to Sportec M3s - I don't like the glassy lack of road feel.

Yes! That was exactly it! I swapped a shagged rear PP for a mostly shagged rear M3 and I could feel individual stones in the tarmac travelling under my feet. Most surreal. Perhaps I should have just got M3's and be done with it but NOOOO I had to do "research" first.

Dave

**MSTRS:Me** · 29th January 2008, 16:56

Originally Posted by RantyDave

Yeah, that's the biscuit. Rear stiffer than the front obviously encourages the front into corners. I get a tiny bit of it now, but the bike feels a lot happier. I also seemed to be, how do I say it, carrying a little more speed than usual.

My problem now is chicken strips

Dave

I dunno...thought that front and back need to work together? If one is 'stiffer' then you will tend to get a see-saw effect that upsets the overall stability.
With someone holding the bike up, press hard down on the rear of the tank (or near the centre of the bike)...both ends should dip and rise together.

**merv** · 29th January 2008, 17:25

Mate you said right back at the beginning perhaps you need to do something with the tyre pressures. Well first question is what are they set at now? I'd always check that and play around with the pressures before changing the suspension at all.

You had fun with pressures when you got the bike remember and your bike has handled OK since then, so I'd say look there again.