Do I pay this ticket?

[kinger]

That has nothing to do with the fact an offence was committed. Are we supposed to sympathise with someone who gets caught speeding (a recidivous offender by your story), just because the cop spelt their home address wrong?

I'm not saying you should sympathise, but applying "the letter of the law" shouldn't be applying the letter of the law plus whatever amendments we choose to make at a later date.
My main point of objection is that the ticket should be correct at the time of issue, and if the ticket is wrong, it's shouldn't be valid, and therefore should be contested.
We all know that the choice to break the laws of the land is down to the individual, but if we are to maintain respect for the enforcement authorities, then at least let them do the courtesy of issuing a correctly worded ticket.

[Soul.Trader]

I'm not saying you should sympathise, but applying "the letter of the law" shouldn't be applying the letter of the law plus whatever amendments we choose to make at a later date.
My main point of objection is that the ticket should be correct at the time of issue, and if the ticket is wrong, it's shouldn't be valid, and therefore should be contested.
We all know that the choice to break the laws of the land is down to the individual, but if we are to maintain respect for the enforcement authorities, then at least let them do the courtesy of issuing a correctly worded ticket.

It is of course possible to apply "the letter of the law" AND make a clerical error, without invalidating the fact that the officer was genuinely ticketing someone who genuinely broke the law.

[Insanity_rules]

I'd pay it. Not worth the defense cost.

[jahrasti]

I'm not saying you should sympathise, but applying "the letter of the law" shouldn't be applying the letter of the law plus whatever amendments we choose to make at a later date.
My main point of objection is that the ticket should be correct at the time of issue, and if the ticket is wrong, it's shouldn't be valid, and therefore should be contested.
We all know that the choice to break the laws of the land is down to the individual, but if we are to maintain respect for the enforcement authorities, then at least let them do the courtesy of issuing a correctly worded ticket.

then if that is the case could I give the officer wrong spelling of my address and then defend it as being written wrong?

[Jantar]

And suppose the offender had already accumalated 80 points ....

Talking with a group of middle aged and generally respectable members of society (my local lions club), this is the reason why so many drivers are doing runners. It isn't the fine, it isn't that they are carrying drugs or stolen property, it isn't even that they are wanted by the law. But they get stopped once more at 112 kmh and its bye bye licence.

One guy who has just celebrated his 72nd birthday did a runner last month and got away.

[Badjelly]

The assertion is that there is no correlation between speed and accident rate.

Please elaborate. What exactly do you mean? What's the evidence for the absence of a correlation?

[swbarnett]

Please elaborate. What exactly do you mean? What's the evidence for the absence of a correlation?

Note the emphasis on speed in the post repeated below. Perhaps I should've said speed alone.

This is an assertion based on logic alone, no evidence is necessary. If speed alone caused accidents Apollo XI would never have made it to the moon.

The assertion is that there is no correlation between speed and accident rate. Nowhere was it said that speed to high for the conditions does not correlate with accident rate. Speed alone is not a primary causative factor.

[kinger]

then if that is the case could I give the officer wrong spelling of my address and then defend it as being written wrong?

As far as I'm aware, you'd be in a bit deeper crap for providing incorrect details wouldn't you? Your address isn't difficult to check against your licence. At which point, I shall now withdraw gracefully from this debate.

[Patrick]

there seems to be an opinion that we should all lie down and let the uniforms do as they see fit to defenceless, conformist members of the public....

Defenceless conformist members of the public don't speed, so don't get tickets..... so they don't need to lie down, unless they are tired, perhaps...

And suppose the offender had already accumalated 80 points

Does the term "Slow learner" ring any bells?

My main point of objection is that the ticket should be correct at the time of issue, and if the ticket is wrong, it's shouldn't be valid, and therefore should be contested.

Sigh.... again....

The ticket was not correct, so it was cancelled... (ie: it is no longer valid). The replacement ticket is correct and is the only one that is enforceable.

The message seems to be missed, so..... Contest a cancelled ticket all you like then...

[jaykay]

The easiest and least time consuming thing to do is pay the ticket. However if you want to have to some fun and don't mind risking $130 court costs, but with the reasonable possibility of the whole thing being dropped here is what you do.
1. Do NOTHING until the Reminder Notice arrives.
2. The Reminder Notice will say you must write within 28 days and request a hearing (to deny liability).
3. Write and put in the post on on day 26, "without a copy of the original ticket a hearing is requested".

Almost guaranteed the reply from the Police will be that you were too late asking for a hearing as the law says they must receive it within 28 days.

However (and this forum is the first to hear this news), I was in the High Court a couple of days ago (against the Police), and the Judge was almost frothing at the mouth with the wording on the Reminder Notice and told the Crown lawyers to sort it out yesterday. So if any more Reminder Notices get issued with the incorrect wording the Police are in contempt of court.

Anyway, if you end up with a notice of fine after asking for a hearing you have to go and fill in a Form 57, and the procedure gets more complicated - it will take the OP some time to do all this, (which is why I said the easiest thing to do is pay).

And no, I didn't have to pay any costs in the High Court (but I didn't get any either).

[scumdog]

The easiest and least time consuming thing to do is pay the ticket. However if you want to have to some fun and don't mind risking $130 court costs, but with the reasonable possibility of the whole thing being dropped here is what you do.
1. Do NOTHING until the Reminder Notice arrives.
2. The Reminder Notice will say you must write within 28 days and request a hearing (to deny liability).
3. Write and put in the post on on day 26, "without a copy of the original ticket a hearing is requested".

Almost guaranteed the reply from the Police will be that you were too late asking for a hearing as the law says they must receive it within 28 days.

However (and this forum is the first to hear this news), I was in the High Court a couple of days ago (against the Police), and the Judge was almost frothing at the mouth with the wording on the Reminder Notice and told the Crown lawyers to sort it out yesterday. So if any more Reminder Notices get issued with the incorrect wording the Police are in contempt of court.

Anyway, if you end up with a notice of fine after asking for a hearing you have to go and fill in a Form 57, and the procedure gets more complicated - it will take the OP some time to do all this, (which is why I said the easiest thing to do is pay).

And no, I didn't have to pay any costs in the High Court (but I didn't get any either).

Well, I certainly hope the above advice is more accurate than THIS gem you once offered to KBer:

"Well, this is all very interesting. You see I was in court the other day (helping), and the police woman said whilst on the witness stand that you don't have to stop for the police and they can't do anything if you simply drive away. The big problem the police actually have is that when they do stop you there ask them if they are detaining you, if the answer is no...drive off - if the answer is yes then they must read you your rights (to remain silent)."

[jahrasti]

Well, I certainly hope the above advice is more accurate than THIS gem you once offered to KBer:

"Well, this is all very interesting. You see I was in court the other day (helping), and the police woman said whilst on the witness stand that you don't have to stop for the police and they can't do anything if you simply drive away. The big problem the police actually have is that when they do stop you there ask them if they are detaining you, if the answer is no...drive off - if the answer is yes then they must read you your rights (to remain silent)."

I love it, you have made my day. and even

[spudchucka]

The easiest and least time consuming thing to do is pay the ticket. However if you want to have to some fun and don't mind risking $130 court costs, but with the reasonable possibility of the whole thing being dropped here is what you do.
1. Do NOTHING until the Reminder Notice arrives.
2. The Reminder Notice will say you must write within 28 days and request a hearing (to deny liability).
3. Write and put in the post on on day 26, "without a copy of the original ticket a hearing is requested".

Almost guaranteed the reply from the Police will be that you were too late asking for a hearing as the law says they must receive it within 28 days.

However (and this forum is the first to hear this news), I was in the High Court a couple of days ago (against the Police), and the Judge was almost frothing at the mouth with the wording on the Reminder Notice and told the Crown lawyers to sort it out yesterday. So if any more Reminder Notices get issued with the incorrect wording the Police are in contempt of court.

Anyway, if you end up with a notice of fine after asking for a hearing you have to go and fill in a Form 57, and the procedure gets more complicated - it will take the OP some time to do all this, (which is why I said the easiest thing to do is pay).

And no, I didn't have to pay any costs in the High Court (but I didn't get any either).

Traffic infringement, High Court, Crown Prosecutor????

Smells like bullshit to me!

[jaykay]

I'm not the bullshitting type, the crown were actually the respondents. I had appealed an order for costs to the High Court as I was annoyed about being hounded for fifteen months about a couple of speed camera tickets when it wasn't my vehicle and I wasn't driving. The police (not for the first time) dropped the whole thing a week before the hearing date but I'd spent some hours defending the charges up to this point. So after "notices of fine" and "final demands" the police decide they don't have sufficient evidence and expect to walk away without any consequences. I gave them some.
Get one thing clear, if anyone receives a Reminder Notice that says that you should "write within 28 days to request a hearing" after the middle of next week, this will show the Police disobeying a High Court Judge. The paperwork should say they have to receive the hearing within 28 days.

Don't forget that paying a speeding fine after being stopped results in demerit points. You don't get the points until you pay. A friend of mine was given a ticket on Waitangi Day 2007 - as usual his request for a hearing was just too late. The Notice of Fine hasn't been chased yet. When it is he'll get it back into court via a Form 57. Then the Police will have to go to all that bother of getting a witness statement from the officer, and there is a very good chance it will get dropped - and even if he is found guilty (eventually) the costs will only be an extra $130 - and the points will expire after a few months.

I have more stories if you want, it's up to you if you want to believe them. The phantom seat belt wearing incident, dropped 9pm the day before the hearing. $50 in costs against the city council as yet again they cocked up a parking ticket. A ticket for 123 dropped 3 days before hearing as the police lost the paperwork. 12 speed camera tickets dropped despite all sorts of threats.

[scumdog]

Don't forget that paying a speeding fine after being stopped results in demerit points. You don't get the points until you pay.

Another urban myth hits the screens on KB...........