20 / 20 this Sunday

[SuperDave]

The excuse of not understanding 'forbidden' is utter bullshit. This guy is studying tourism if I remember what the show said correctly, and he has been here for a couple of years, so what? is his course taught in Chinese or something, how can he not understand english?

I reckon fuck the judge here as well, what the hell? That is the kind of man upholding and ultimately enforcing the laws of our country? If that's what our judges are like and are so easily swayed and sympathetic towards those breaking the laws, then the police in this country might as well just give up, or take the sentencing into their own hands.

[spudchucka]

Obviously I can't comment on what happened when this guy was forbidden because I wasn't there. However whenever a person is forbidden to drive police explain in great detail what it means and what the consequences of driving while forbidden are. The police officer will ask the person to acknowledge that they have understood and he / she will write on the ticket that the "consequences of driving whilst forbidden have been explained and understood".

Personally I think that most foreign drivers, (in particular those from Asian countries) should not be permitted to drive here on there home licence. They should have to surrender it to the LTSA who will issue them with a New Zealand photo learners class licence. They should then have to graduate through the system so that their driving ability can be assessed. Having a NZ photo licence will also clear up issues of identity that arise with the Chinese licences. When they leave the country or when they attain a full NZ licence the LTSA would then release their licence from their home country back to them.

By the way I missed the 20 / 20 show as I was dealing with a car that went of a bridge and was upside down in a creek bed. The driver had buggerd off and it took about 2.5 hours to track him down.

[spudchucka]

The excuse of not understanding 'forbidden' is utter bullshit. This guy is studying tourism if I remember what the show said correctly, and he has been here for a couple of years, so what? is his course taught in Chinese or something, how can he not understand english?

I reckon fuck the judge here as well, what the hell? That is the kind of man upholding and ultimately enforcing the laws of our country? If that's what our judges are like and are so easily swayed and sympathetic towards those breaking the laws, then the police in this country might as well just give up, or take the sentencing into their own hands.

Judges have pretty much all been defence lawyers in the past. It should come as no surprise that most of them are soft ons.

[MOTOXXX]

Personally I think that most foreign drivers, (in particular those from Asian countries) should not be permitted to drive here on there home licence. They should have to surrender it to the LTSA who will issue them with a New Zealand photo learners class licence. They should then have to graduate through the system so that their driving ability can be assessed. Having a NZ photo licence will also clear up issues of identity that arise with the Chinese licences. When they leave the country or when they attain a full NZ licence the LTSA would then release their licence from their home country back to them.

i think thats a good idea too.
when i bought my car from auckland i got it from a student from china. he was telling me that in china he had sat his learners licence (the written part) had never realy driven a car until he came to nz. His licence was valid for 1 year in nz before having to change it. so he slaps 9k on the desk of a dealer and leaves in a MANUAL SEMI SPORTS CAR not to mention that hes learning to drive in AUCKLAND.

i mean we all remember how hard it is can be to learn to drive but learning to drive in auckland with no instruction is insane

oh and he never insured the car either

[MikeL]

Should we have a mentoring program set in place for all home-leavers and international students to make sure they stay on the straight and narrow?

Interesting question. I'm sure that all universities and most schools have more than adequate support and counselling resources in place.

As I see it, there are a couple of separate issues:

In the first place, most Asian students, compared to their kiwi counterparts, have a very limited range of experiences, and almost no experience in living independently or making their own decisions. Their education system relies to a large extent on rote learning and puts very little emphasis on intellectual curiosity, problem-solving or forming an opinion. Many take a long time to adapt to our system of radically different values.

Secondly, on the whole they do not and will not integrate into the "mainstream" of society in this country. They remain within the comfort zone of their own language and culture. Most, when they arrive, go into homestays (it is a requirement in many schools, particularly if they are under 18). Few are still in homestays 6 months later. Most commonly, they flat with other Asians, speak their own language, eat their own food... The hostility that they often perceive to their presence here reinforces their separation. There is such a large number of them in Auckland, for instance, that almost all their social, medical, commercial and other needs can be supplied within their own ethnic community.

Thirdly, they all too often lack the emotional maturity to cope with the new freedoms that they find in NZ. Family, school, social and moral attitudes back in China are much more restrictive. Here they have much easier access to cars, gambling, booze, sex, everything... We can hardly blame them for going off the rails.

Exactly how much more "we" (schools/universities/immigration/the general public??) can do to address these issues is a perplexing question.

NZ's international education industry has suffered from too rapid growth and insufficient planning. Fortunately or unfortunately, in a free market these things have a tendency to be self-correcting. Those who complain about the Asians this year will be wondering in a year's time where they've all gone.

[MikeL]

Personally I think that most foreign drivers, (in particular those from Asian countries) should not be permitted to drive here on there home licence. They should have to surrender it to the LTSA who will issue them with a New Zealand photo learners class licence. They should then have to graduate through the system so that their driving ability can be assessed. Having a NZ photo licence will also clear up issues of identity that arise with the Chinese licences. When they leave the country or when they attain a full NZ licence the LTSA would then release their licence from their home country back to them.

This is a very practical, commonsense solution.
Which is why it will probably never happen.

The usual excuse for not tightening up on foreign licences is the repercussions on kiwis driving overseas.
Considering the number of kiwis who want to live, work and drive in China I wouldn't think it would be a problem. Presumably people visiting on tourist visas could still use their national licence for the 3 months or whatever.

[James Deuce]

Open mind see what is being said eh?

I'll have to take it back, except for the indignant bit - I'm still indignant that this guy didn't get taken straight to the airport and put on a plane home. This may well illustrate to issues involved in a politicised judicial system.

[Stinger]

This is a very practical, commonsense solution.
Which is why it will probably never happen.

The usual excuse for not tightening up on foreign licences is the repercussions on kiwis driving overseas.
Considering the number of kiwis who want to live, work and drive in China I wouldn't think it would be a problem. Presumably people visiting on tourist visas could still use their national licence for the 3 months or whatever.

I don't think we should be able to drive in China without some sort of test/course and I think the same should apply here.

[thehollowmen]

Interesting question. I'm sure that all universities and most schools have more than adequate support and counselling resources in place.
(snip)
NZ's international education industry has suffered from too rapid growth and insufficient planning. Fortunately or unfortunately, in a free market these things have a tendency to be self-correcting. Those who complain about the Asians this year will be wondering in a year's time where they've all gone.

True
I don't think its all about asian students, they get a bad rep in the media.
I'm a little biased because I've got a few asian friends and two asian sisters, and they keep getting told by random people in the street to "go home to your own country"

I see a lot of problems with students in general, we've all gone a little crazy when we've left home.

I've got an interesting story about the american international students in dunedin from saterday too :-P I had to dodge a muffler that fell off an old ford in town on the way home from work. I picked it up and gave it to them at the next lights and noticed the car didn't have a WOF. When I asked they didn't even know what WOFs were for...

I do agree there are problems, and tighter control is needed. But it needs also to apply to us in the same way it applies to the international students.

As you say, the universities do have a few support systems in place. My wife got an email from the uni about 7 months ago about "be careful driving in the snow, it is dangerous and probably a new experiance for you." Which is a bit odd, considering to get a full license back home costs close to ten grand and involves a snow and ice driving course too.

Are the current programs not working?

maybe you're right, maybe we should just sit back and wait and see what happens in five or ten years.

Also with the huge growth there are many useless degrees .. we've become a degree factory. I think that is also going to contribute to a glut in the international education market... The situtation is not ideal. Really, I don't know how to fix it.

Anyway... Pity all the people who really know how to run the country are cutting hair and driving taxis

[thehollowmen]

This is a very practical, commonsense solution.
Which is why it will probably never happen.

The usual excuse for not tightening up on foreign licences is the repercussions on kiwis driving overseas.
Considering the number of kiwis who want to live, work and drive in China I wouldn't think it would be a problem. Presumably people visiting on tourist visas could still use their national licence for the 3 months or whatever.

Ya know, that's a big excuse in a LOT of countries.
When I went over to Norway, I was talking to a lady on the airplane. They've tightened their system to have very rigorous testing for car drivers, costs a fortune to get your license, and driving is pretty bad too with 12 kronor per liter ($4?)

Anyway, this lady travelled internationally due to work about once every 4 months, well within the grace period for an international license. So she got hers in the US and just exits and enters the country repeatedly. Its a common thing.

A lot of internationals would qualify on this, since the IDP last for 12 months... and they can travel out and in and get it renewed. maybe we'll get those "airtrips to nowhere" for IDPs just like the ones that were used to renew work permits many years ago...

[MikeL]

the IDP last for 12 months...

Does anyone bother with the IDP any more? I last used one in 1998. Since then, when booking rental cars in the States and Europe, I've been told that my NZ licence is all I need.

[James Deuce]

Does anyone bother with the IDP any more? I last used one in 1998. Since then, when booking rental cars in the States and Europe, I've been told that my NZ licence is all I need.

When we went to the UK in '98 we only needed our NZ license.

[Devil]

Many of the Asian students that I teach live in a state of almost permanent bewilderment.

Too true!
Our building (AKL CBD) has a couple of asian language schools as tenants (one of the major reasons we're leaving, never again in the same building as these people gah).
Mike, could you please do me a favour... is there any way in your testing you could include questions about how to use lifts? Not rocket science or anything, like, when you want to go down, press the down button, not both of them.

Ive completely forgotten what I was going to say so Ill just stop here.

[crashe]

Two months ago I was in the AA with a young friend who was obtaining his car drivers license.... (yep he passed 100% and has since gone on and passed his Bike license 100% as well)
Now there was a older lady and a young girl sitting behind her reading out the scratchy questions to the older lady. The AA woman had to go and speak to them 2 times as she felt that she lady at the back was telling her the answers.

How can they tell - apparently its quite easy to tell that they are cheating.
The young woman at the back was reading out in english and then in her language and the then the older woman would look up for a spilt second and scratch her answer... which meant that the older woman wasnt even looking at the scratchy but was just given the answers......
They denied it but the AA woman stood over them for a minute or two... eventually moving away.....
Well guess what the older woman got 8 answers wrong.... YAY.... it dont pay to cheat.... Her husband came over and tried to say that she mistook what was being said to her.... the AA folks told her she has to repay and come back again.... Husband not a happy chappy.

So maybe its time that AA employed their own interperters (sp).
To stop all the cheating.....

Why wasnt the guy sent back home to his country to face his parents....
and have the shame on his family.... Oh yeah he paid $10,000. Well that dont cut it... He killed a man so he should be deported back to his country of origin. But in the meantime he gets to stay in NZ probably still driving a car cos he dont understand english and he gets to finish his tourism course....in english.
And I bet he is back behind the wheel of a car and not abiding with the laws of NZ.

Send him home permantly to face the shame, I am tired of them being allowed to think that money will buy off the crime.... $40,000 for a young girl killed at a petrol station down the line and now $10,000 for this young man....

[crashe]

I also meet an English couple who are living here in NZ. They have lived here for years (about 12 years I think) and they ride and drive here in NZ on a UK license. I asked why they didnt have a NZ license as they must have one after 1 year of being in NZ.

Their answer was well "We go back to the UK every year just before the year is up....for a short holiday so therefore we dont need a NZ license...."
Well they were going to go and sit a NZ license after I had explained a few things to them.....
Well they are living in NZ afterall, that it dont matter that they leave every year....

This couple saw a loophole in the system... and they were using it to the max.
So I wonder how many others have found this loophole....