Excluding based on sex...

[MadDuck]

Oh, And I only pointed Flames name out because she is the only female racer that I know right now.

Not to mention Keystone19, Nicksta, RossiGal and Meeky Mouse to name but a few.

We have done this topic so many times its kind of getting boring. I wont get invited to girls only days now because i ride a Harley.....should I take offence. Nup. Do I care. Nup. Will the sun rise tomorrow...yep I am pretty sure it will.

[Bonez]

Not to mention Keystone19, Nicksta, RossiGal and Meeky Mouse to name but a few.

We have done this topic so many times its kind of getting boring. I wont get invited to girls only days now because i ride a Harley.....should I take offence. Nup. Do I care. Nup. Will the sun rise tomorrow...yep I am pretty sure it will.

Whats owning a Harley got to do with not being invited to a track day? You should be invited no matter what ride you've got.

Doesn't Goblin race as well?

[idb]

Refractory period?

It was always Physics in fourth period that I hated!!!!

[007XX]

Hi 007XX

I dont take things personally unless the moon is in the 4th quarter and I havent had enough coffee for the day yet. Just thought I would put my views up on what I thought of woman only trackdays. You have put yours up. That is fine.

I'm glad you're ok with me having an opinion...it's refreshing! *goes off to check where the moon's at...*

Oh, And I only pointed Flames name out because she is the only female racer that I know right now. Not suggesting at all that she would go round pissing people off at trackdays. But the question still hasnt been answered if she would be invited to a woman only trackday because she is quick. That was the overwhelming reason to have a woman only trackday after all - so less experienced riders do not feel intimiadated.

You're missing the point entirely...it is not about being fast. Men and women alike can be fast.
However, girls very rarely tend to purposely ride in a dangerous, show off fashion on the track to impress their mates...why? because they are not driven by ego and other women would not actually think it is suitable behaviour anyway.
Women respect security and skill, and also the fact there is a time and place for everything. Track days are about honing your skill safely on the track, not scare the newbies because it is seen as cool by your mates.

road riding is fine. And it sounds alot better to go for a ride with a bunch of friends who happen to be all female than to have a female only ride. The whole notion of a female only ride (which seems to be missed) is one of two things.

1. There are no dangerous female riders out there. Therefore you can organise a ride based on gender and guarentee there will be no dangerous riding going on.

2. All females are so slow that they dont have the ability to intimate others.

which one is it now?

Gah...

Bottom line is: Some idiots out there think it is a good thing to behave inappropriately on the track, and it would seem especially if they see a chick on a bike.

As stated before, I am not easily scared, and eventually got over it...but as DMNTD stated, the likes of the track day i went to was a perfect example of why some women feel they need to have a more secure environment to learn to be better riders.

How would you feel if a lady who was close and dear to you was seriously intimidated after one track day, enough so to give up on the idea of track days altogether, seeing it as a threatening male environment?

Just humour me on this, and truly try to put yourself in the shoes of a scared young woman, who doesn't have the physical strength to "confront" the other male riders and tell them to pull their head in, as was suggested to me earlier in this thread.

What's her alternative from your point of view?

[cowboyz]

from my point of view. Every male I know has enough sense not to mess with a woman. See a woman go off at ya and it is scary. really scary!

I do understand where you are coming from but there are HEAPS of guys who respect others on the track. Banning all them for the select few is not right.

And if a woman feels intimidated on the track, then a quiet word to the TDO at any respectable trackday will sort that out in about 2 seconds. that is of course if the marshalls havent already reported and black flagged the dangerous rider.

[007XX]

from my point of view. Every male I know has enough sense not to mess with a woman. See a woman go off at ya and it is scary. really scary!

Every male you know doesn't make the entire riders population. And I am not enclined to a "battle of the sexes" discussion. unfortunately, there are still many men out there who still think that having more brawn means they are superior.

To me, men and women should work together, and supplement each other. So I guess we agree, but this is not a perfect world, is it?

I do understand where you are coming from but there are HEAPS of guys who respect others on the track. Banning all them for the select few is not right.

Oh and I agree wholeheartedly...So may I suggest that your argument may not actually be with women for organising their own track day, but with the moronic few who are spoiling it for both women and men who are intent on being good riders?

And if a woman feels intimidated on the track, then a quiet word to the TDO at any respectable trackday will sort that out in about 2 seconds. that is of course if the marshalls havent already reported and black flagged the dangerous rider.

Ideally you'd be right...I'm afraid reality ain't quite like that. A woman who goes complaining about men behaving badly will get labelled a "whinging bitch" by the average male moron (and I stress I do not think it is every male, only a very few), and get trageted as such from then on...

You are a reasonable person, who can understand someone else's point of view, and that's fantastic

[sefer]

are you even allowed to have a men only gym

Nope your not, then again your not actually allowed to have a women's only gym either, they operate on the fact that men won't actually try to join, and won't take them to court if they did. I know this because my mother owns one and we had to figure i out.

As some has pointed out there are no 'gentlemen's clubs' any more (at least not public ones that anyone bar members know about) for the exact reason that you cannot discriminate by sex. Working men's clubs have open memberships for the same reason.

[karla]

Ideally you'd be right...I'm afraid reality ain't quite like that. A woman who goes complaining about men behaving badly will get labelled a "whinging bitch" by the average male moron (and I stress I do not think it is every male, only a very few), and get trageted as such from then on...

I imagine (and I know that I can't talk for men) that a guy who complained would get labelled much worse by the average male.

If we (women) want to hang out in male dominated places then I think that we need to make an effort to fit into that environment/existing culture, rather than try and make things fit into us....at least for a while - it's a common courtesy thing. Most of the men that I know are wonderful and welcome the company of women, as well as make allowances for us, but they tire quickly of being told that what they do "isn't good enough". Equally, when a guy comes into my kitchen he is welcome, but if he starts trying to rearrange my furniture, or tells me how to bake bread, he will get a short sharp shift.

Surely track days for newcomers solve the problem of sensitivity and feelings of intimidation? Some men might feel equally as intimidated by women who are more experienced than them, but I haven't heard any men asking for male only track days. Men don't tend to make big issues about needing special treatment because of their gender - that may of course be a "male thing". Sometimes I think men need to have more of a voice (and women need to listen more and give them space to talk) - other times I admire men's ability to stfu and shovel the shit. Women can also learn from this.

Anyway, I'm just a newcomer, and accept that I know very little of which I speak. It was mentioned earlier in this tread that this is "just a track day" and I agree, large issues are being extrapolated from a small thing, but there is an underlying principle here that is not so simple, these are bloody complex issues actually, so it's important that men and women talk through these things and work together as best we can to find a common understanding, or just agree to disagree and then let it go.

If it turns out that women only track days are supported, then later on I would hope that women would support men only track days.

Of course, if I were in charge I'd just go ahead and do what I wanted, have the track day - the best way to discover if something is a bad idea is to implement it. And then bring on Women Only biker rallies. If it's not supported then it won't last. If it does then it is probably a good idea.

[karla]

Nope your not, then again your not actually allowed to have a women's only gym either, they operate on the fact that men won't actually try to join, and won't take them to court if they did. I know this because my mother owns one and we had to figure i out.

As some has pointed out there are no 'gentlemen's clubs' any more (at least not public ones that anyone bar members know about) for the exact reason that you cannot discriminate by sex. Working men's clubs have open memberships for the same reason.

Just build on a special women's room and women will segregate themselves, leaving the men free to enjoy the main gym without tripping over women. Seems to be the way it works, at my gym anyway ~

This makes me wonder about the women's only track days actually - who will actually benefit the most, men or women? Perhaps both ~ who knows.

[MSTRS:Me]

Perhaps the 'problem' that (some) women perceive in mixed track sessions is one of perception, rather than reality? Do any of the longer-time members remember the shitstorm around a Welly girl's first experiences on the track at Manfield?
Is it also possible that the feminazis have shot themselves in the foot? Years have been spent putting laws in place to stop discrimination based on (differences) and if our thinking on these issues have changed more in line with the laws, we are now being told that segregation/discrimination is ok?
Besides, it doesn't matter which of the three sexes is riding on the track - if it goes pear-shaped, it's gonna hurt.

[steveb64]

Perhaps the 'problem' that (some) women perceive in mixed track sessions is one of perception, rather than reality? Do any of the longer-time members remember the shitstorm around a Welly girl's first experiences on the track at Manfield?
Is it also possible that the feminazis have shot themselves in the foot? Years have been spent putting laws in place to stop discrimination based on (differences) and if our thinking on these issues have changed more in line with the laws, we are now being told that segregation/discrimination is ok?
Besides, it doesn't matter which of the three sexes is riding on the track - if it goes pear-shaped, it's gonna hurt.

Seems like segregation is OK if it's a minority segregating themselves from the majority, but if the majority want to segregate from the minority - SHIT NO, THAT'S DISCRIMINATION!

Errr - as a side note - why does there have to be 'Chicks only' DAYS? Is there enough of you women wanting to do track day rides to split up into slow and fast (or slow, medium and fast)? And to cover the track hire?
Why not just split the groupings on a regular track day to slow, med, fast, and women? At least you then get the benefit (such as it may be) of having a bunch of potential coaches around... And it'll help keep costs down...

[Hitcher]

Errr - as a side note - why does there have to be 'Chicks only' DAYS?

Again, somebody is missing the point. If a group of like-minded people want to band together to do something or organise an event, then that is their business and nobody else's. A track day is not a public event. Numbers are generally restricted in some way to ensure that things run smoothly and participants get good value. So a group of women riders want to organise their own track day and have fun without the omnipresent stench of testosterone curbing their enjoyment. Get over it.

[jrandom]

Again, somebody is missing the point...

What he said.

I heartily applaud the idea of women-only trackdays, with the proviso that I be allowed to come along and watch the riders standing around their bikes in the hot, hot sunshine with one-piece leathers half off.

[Blue Velvet]

with the proviso that I be allowed to come along and watch

Excluding spectators based on gender is not FTW

[steveb64]

Again, somebody is missing the point. If a group of like-minded people want to band together to do something or organise an event, then that is their business and nobody else's. A track day is not a public event. Numbers are generally restricted in some way to ensure that things run smoothly and participants get good value. So a group of women riders want to organise their own track day and have fun without the omnipresent stench of testosterone curbing their enjoyment. Get over it.

Yeah. You. Totally.

What I was asking WAS (In simple terms just for Hitcher): "Given the apparent high costs of track rental (assumed, due to cancellation of 'Trackday 7' because of lack of paid entries), ARE THERE ENOUGH women riders willing to stump up the readies to enable them to have their own trackday?"

If there is - GREAT. Good on them. I REALLY don't care. Even if they want to build a bonfire in the middle of the circuit, and dance around it singing pagan chants. (As long as it's not on the track itself...).

IF there isn't, WHY can't they have a chunk of their OWN time out on the track, during regular non-gender specific track days?
Given that the major complaint seems to be "Some idiots out there think it is a good thing to behave inappropriately on the track, and it would seem especially if they see a chick on a bike." - surely this level of separation should be effective enough?

AT NO POINT did I intimate, or even infer, that they SHOULD BE BANNED from having a trackday all their own!