Excluding based on sex...

[CookMySock]

1- Women being more easily nervous in situations such as the ones with higher danger capacity than men normally would be.

2- some men, generally of a younger generation, prooving themselves more of a nuisance and dangerous when left loose in mixed gender track days, making the more nervy types of females regret being in there in the first place.

How fair is it that women with this particular learning "shyness" should have to be scared and maybe even put off entirely from track days?

look,

re: (2) I'll be the first to tell some loud boyo to back it down if they ladies are startin to frown or stand back quietly.

I understand the track sessions are fairly well defined anyway, and those of the advanced group are fully separated from the newbs anway. Speedsters or cowboys in any session will get black-flagged if they are interfering with someone elses' session.

Anyway, if the ladettes are off doing their thing I don't begrudge them it. I just like to come and tag along coz its neat.

IMO, less excluding and more sex lol

DB

[BiK3RChiK]

Yadda,yadda,yadda... There will always be moaners about 'chicks only days' and the like. Fact is, there are some chicks who may be are out there for the first time and the last thing they need is some over-excited testosterone-pumped idiot scaring the crap out of them so that they never participate again!

There seems to be two sides to this issue. 1. Moronic bad behaviour has happened at track days, which has resulted in women wanting their own track day. and 2. Women 'feel intimidated' or whatever at mixed track days, so want their own.

Aren't track days all about learning and trying something new and exciting in a safe environment? If intimidating, moronic behaviour never happened and if women didn't feel threatened (don't know if this is the right word here) then I don't think we would even be debating this issue.

I think the issue really comes back to respect for the other gender or just respect for the newer track riders. Much can be gained by sharing knowledge and it seems to me that if one gender is 'excluded' then much knowledge is wasted.

But then, I haven't done a track day yet, so what would I know!

Just my 0.02!

M

[Paul in NZ]

Actually - this thread is just convincing me to stay away from ALL trackdays regardless of how much sex is being offered...

[007XX]

Anyway, if the ladettes are off doing their thing I don't begrudge them it. I just like to come and tag along coz its neat.

IMO, less excluding and more sex lol

DB

...especially the IMO part

I think the issue really comes back to respect for the other gender or just respect for the newer track riders. Much can be gained by sharing knowledge and it seems to me that if one gender is 'excluded' then much knowledge is wasted.

exactly!!! Very well put...oh and definitely give a go to track days...they are the best fun, and best investment you can possibly do to advance your skills.

Actually - this thread is just convincing me to stay away from ALL trackdays regardless of how much sex is being offered...

Liar, liar, pants on fire...

Oh absolutely....but only when the sessions are mixed (at least, for most of us )

Apparently I can't give you any green lurv for a while

[MSTRS:Me]

Apparently I can't give you any green lurv for a while

You're a very giving young lady. I accept IOUs...

[steveb64]

What's the difference between 'Women only track days' and 'Women only track time' ?

And how many women would actually turn up for a track day of their own (Given that Taupo hire costs $6300, + ancilliary costs)? - ...or should that just be - How many women would be even be interested in a track day of their own?

NOT trying to stir - just curious! BTW - my wife would be dead keen to do a trackday ride, and she'd prefer to be out on the track with just other women - but we can't justify the cost of going all the way to Taupo for just ONE of us to have a ride. Either one. Sigh. And that means two more bikes to fix... (Her Bandit 12, and my old pre '82 GSX11). GROAN.

[BiK3RChiK]

What's the difference between 'Women only track days' and 'Women only track time' ?

And how many women would actually turn up for a track day of their own (Given that Taupo hire costs $6300, + ancilliary costs)? - ...or should that just be - How many women would be even be interested in a track day of their own?

NOT trying to stir - just curious! BTW - my wife would be dead keen to do a trackday ride, and she'd prefer to be out on the track with just other women - but we can't justify the cost of going all the way to Taupo for just ONE of us to have a ride. Either one. Sigh. And that means two more bikes to fix... (Her Bandit 12, and my old pre '82 GSX11). GROAN.

I don't know what the difference is because I've never been to one. However, I wouldn't have a problem with having a 'Woman-only track Time' at a mixed event. What with the cost and all! The women would have to go first though!!

[cowboyz]

Seems my position has been misunderstood, or at least taken personally by some of the fairer sex enough to warrent a pm debate. Well not so much as a debate but more of a telling off really. I suggested that her concens be expressed in the thread and was declined so I will summerise and comment.

1. I am arrogant for saying that girls organising road rides is fine.

- not sure where to go with this one to be honest. I was stating that I didnt have a problem with girls organising road rides together but reserveing a trackday for girls only does not sit right with me.

2. I should not be a mentor because I dont think like a woman.

- mentor aside, it has been scrapped now anyhow, but I have no idea why I need to think like a woman to be a good mentor. With the whole mentor thing I struggled at first in what to teach people. I am not particularly interested in teaching people how to simply ride fast on the road. In the latter part I was more focused on teaching people how to read the road and ride smoothly.

3. The pm'er states that she thinks woman simply would not feel comfortable around me.

- irks a little. I doint attempt to treat anyone any particular way because they happen to be female or male. I treat people how they deserved to be treated. Both male and female. There are quite a few females in the manawatu rides now. I would be a little disjointed if I found that they were uncomfortable around me. I, like most people, like to be liked.

4. She goes on to say that I am not welcome on any of her rides.

- by the sounds of it her rides are chicks only so I fail by default but for the first time in my life I can chalk up being banned from something. Milestone of sorts I surpose.

5. She also makes reference to boobs on bikes, dicks on bikes.

- no idea where this was going or what it is surpose to imply. Boobs on bikes has both genders involved. Never heard of dicks on bikes.


So summary in order.

I personally, have an issue with any public event that excludes anyone that could benefit from the event because of their age/gender/race. And by "public" I mean, any event that is orgainised and has open invites to any who want to pay to be there.
If a group of 50 girls who were all friends decided to pool their money and hire the track for a private closed session then that is fine by me.

I couldnt care less if road rides are organised for any specific group. If girls want to organise a girls only ride and have girls only on that ride on a public road then fine. Go for it.

I hope this has made my position clearer.

[Bonez]

How come you get to have all the fun Lance?

[karla]

...
So summary in order.

I personally, have an issue with any public event that excludes anyone that could benefit from the event because of their age/gender/race. And by "public" I mean, any event that is orgainised and has open invites to any who want to pay to be there.
If a group of 50 girls who were all friends decided to pool their money and hire the track for a private closed session then that is fine by me.

I couldnt care less if road rides are organised for any specific group. If girls want to organise a girls only ride and have girls only on that ride on a public road then fine. Go for it.

I hope this has made my position clearer.

I'm lining up on your team. I really enjoy riding with other women, but that isn't to the detriment of men, in fact it's probably to their advantage (we're all happier). Love riding with men too.

But I'd be more than a little pissed off if my sons/brothers/male friends (or sisters/girlfriends) were excluded from any public event on the basis of their gender. It's not ok for an enlightened society to sanction that kind, or any similar kind of discrimination.

[Trudes]

3. The pm'er states that she thinks woman simply would not feel comfortable around me.

- irks a little. I doint attempt to treat anyone any particular way because they happen to be female or male. I treat people how they deserved to be treated. Both male and female. There are quite a few females in the manawatu rides now. I would be a little disjointed if I found that they were uncomfortable around me. I, like most people, like to be liked.

I like you Lance and I can honestly say that every time I have met you you have never been anything other than friendly and helpful (OK, you're a cheeky bugger, but that just adds to......) and made me feel quite comfortable in your presence..... so fucked if I know what that comment is all about. Maybe said PMer just feels uncomfortable in the presence of men in general??

[MSTRS:Me]

It's not ok for an enlightened society to sanction that kind, or any similar kind of discrimination.

You mean I can't organise a whites-only trackday? I mean, I saw a TV doco recently that suggested our ethnic citizens would steal my stuff and rape my woman...couldn't risk that fate on the things I love.

[Bonez]

I like you Lance and I can honestly say that every time I have met you you have never been anything other than friendly and helpful (OK, you're a cheeky bugger, but that just adds to......) and made me feel quite comfortable in your presence..... so fucked if I know what that comment is all about. Maybe said PMer just feels uncomfortable in the presence of men in general??

Sounds like it. Doesn't it?

As for mentoring. It doesn't HAVE to be KB santioned anyway.

[cowboyz]

You mean I can't organise a whites-only trackday? I mean, I saw a TV doco recently that suggested our ethnic citizens would steal my stuff and rape my woman...couldn't risk that fate on the things I love.

now you got me buggered.

If my wife takes off with my bike did she do it cause shes female or cause she black..........





I will just slip out the door for a bit........

[MSTRS:Me]

now you got me buggered. Wasn't me. I was nowhere near you.

If my wife takes off with my bike did she do it cause shes female or cause she black.......... Yes...

I will just slip out the door for a bit........Some things are better not talked about in public...

The devil made me do it