Suggestions for speed limit enforcement

[Jackrat]

There certainly aint the love there used to be Im sure between Hp and Police, look at who has the new cars nice raincoats jackets etc, all the flash gear goes to the HP, cause thats where the money is ?? I dunno but its a bit hard on the police guys. ( I deliberatly put HP and police in different catergories)

I guess that must depend on where they live.
My mate that's HP lives in a small n'th island east coast town.
He's effectively HP but he does everything.
This is a little different from where I live (Waiuku),we just got another seven HP cars but still don't have a full time cop.The guys that look after this area come from Pukekohe but we still have to ring Papakura on a weekend or AH to get anybody.
I don't have any issue with the current speed limits, but there's some strange shit happening in this country for sure. :confused2

[Hitcher]

My mate that's HP lives in a small n'th island east coast town.

Rides a cruiser, as does his missus who commutes to Wellington?

[spudchucka]

Why is it that when you get pulled up for speeding or whatever, you 1/ get a demerit point deduction on your licence and 2/ you get a financal penalty as well

I beleive this is wrong.

You are effectively penalised twice. I think there is no neccesity to recieve a financal penalty when you have lost a number of points and on your way to loosing your licence.
the fear of loosing points is enough and this fear is of more concern to me than the money itself. So wont Points Loss do it ??? wouldnt a point deduction instil enough fear into people to keep the speeds down by itself???

From this I beleive the financal penalty is nothing more than feeding the machine and a tax collection on the motorist.
And I have alot of attitude towards it and the people who enforce it and the cronies in government that hide behind the "speeding kills" banner.

Time for a change !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and Spudchucker I have no problem with you personally but the organisation you work for (HP only not police) have fallen to the bottom of the social standing list in NZ careers. And frankly I dont know how HP members can even do there job with any element of job satisfaction

Demerits alone might be a strong deterent if the situation was that if you got caught doing 20kms over it means that you lost 3/4 of your licence. Then most people who give a shit would be sticking to the speed limit like they had a cop tailing them every where they went. I personaly wouldn't object to an approach like that.

I know there are some arsewipes in HP and in other sections of the police too but in all honesty I believe that the vast majority of cops are genuine good bastards who work hard and are in the job because they believe in what they are doing. It's a shame that some members of the public think poorly of us but it's a job in which you can't please all of the people all of the time. There will always be people who think poorly of the police regardless of policy etc, simply because outcomes are not in their favour.

[750Y]

...There will always be people who think poorly of the police regardless of policy etc, simply because outcomes are not in their favour.

some good points spud, but you are glazing over things a little. the jews disliked Hitler, was that simply because outcomes were not in their favour?
just wanted to point out that from my perspective there is a lot more to it & no I'm not likening the Police to the third reich or anything that crazy.
i believe in driver skill & education as a big part of the solution.
demerit points? incentive to avoid being caught...

[spudchucka]

demerit points? incentive to avoid being caught...

If it makes people think about what they are doing and drive in a manner that doesn't attract the attention of the fuzz then its probably a worthwhile approach.

[Quasievil]

Is the super enhanced HP presence and the NZ road user intimidation regime working ??
I actually am unsure but is all of this ticketing actually lowering the road toll?
particulary to a point where it can justify such a investment into road policing?
just curious.

[spudchucka]

Is the super enhanced HP presence and the NZ road user intimidation regime working ??
I actually am unsure but is all of this ticketing actually lowering the road toll?
particulary to a point where it can justify such a investment into road policing?
just curious.

Try asking the question "what would happen if we didn't have the current level of road policing"?

I'm 99.99% certain that there would be a hell of a lot more carnage.

I can't remember which paper I read it in, (probably the Dom), but an article recently quoted the number of speeding issued for this year as being markedly down. The article suggested that this was due to the introduction of anywhere anytime speed cameras???

From the LTSA web site.

Road deaths
As at 1 Dec 2004 385
Same time last year 419
Last 12 months 427

It appears that 34 fewer people have been killed so far this year. The last 12 months figure doesn't look that flash but its a hell of a lot better than the 700 odd deaths per year that we had in the early 90's.

At a cost to the country of 1.5 million bucks, (or some crazy figure like that, I can't remember the exact cost) per road death its easy to justify the heavy handed approach.

[scumdog]

Rare to clock somebody doing much over 120kph, 4 years ago that was the norm on the open road.
Crashes down here are way less than 4 years ago - injury AND non-injury.
Anecdotely from talking to H.P. guys it seems they have the same opinion, BTW most of their top-end speed tickets are overseas tourists, most who would be out of their depth in a show-ground go-cart :spudwhat:

[Hitcher]

Rare to clock somebody doing much over 120kph, 4 years ago that was the norm on the open road.

It's interesting to note that while the "average" recorded open road speed has come down, the speeds of the "top 15%" haven't changed. There is some political fall-out for the former, which is why the politicians have backed off some of the proposed harder-edged enforcement tactics, such as hidden speed cameras and unmarked vehicles. There is also a growing body of evidence to suggest that unnecessarily slow open road speeds contribute to accidents.

[scroter]

The trucks out there arent doing the speed limit.... man some of them are flying down the motorways... they hoon past me and I am doing 100km to 110km so I would hate to think what speed they are doing.... and then if they have stop in a hurry.... oh the carnage they will cause.

im a truck driver doin a measly 400ks a night and i dont see them speeding not that much anyway. corse i dont go on the motorway much but mate its too easy to get a ticket in a truck. not me for the extra 2 mins it takes stuff it. plus a trucks top speed is usually not much over 120kph. if you do speeds like that all the time not only will it suck your tank dry faster (already about 2k per litre) but the truck wont last long.

[vifferman]

Try asking the question "what would happen if we didn't have the current level of road policing"?

I'm 99.99% certain that there would be a hell of a lot more carnage.

At a cost to the country of 1.5 million bucks, (or some crazy figure like that, I can't remember the exact cost) per road death its easy to justify the heavy handed approach.

I don't have a problem with any of that, and I guess I don't even have a problem with both fines AND demerit points being handed out. It's certainly made me look more critically at my riding, possibly to the detriment of the quaility of it. I mean, the markings on my speedo are a poofteenth of a millimetre apart, and the difference between travelling legally or illegally is likewise a fraction of a degree of throttle twist. I found that for the first time, my last open-highway ride was requiring an inordinate amount of attention to the speedo to ensure I didn't inadvertantly becoming a speeding killer. On a bike, you don't need that kind of distraction away from the business of staying safe.

I also must admit that my view of, and satisfaction with the police has taken a backward step with my son being given a ticket for careless use after his crash the other day. Is he a careless driver? No, definitely not. He NEVER speeds, and is very attentive and careful. Inexperienced, yes; careless, no way!
How does a passing cop giving him a ticket (apparently, almost as an afterthought) help him be more careful or a better driver? :spudwhat:
He already has the penalty of a $1k insurance excess, the trauma of the crash to get over, and now has to deal with a court appearance and whatever the judge slaps him with. Eight hours after the crash, he was still trembling and upset.

I'll tell you how it helps: he won't be able to afford to drive on the road, especially if a conviction means he/we can't get insurance.

Good plan. Tax/fine/intimidate as many drivers/riders off the road as possible.

[Blakamin]

Just a thought, how many road deaths does Australia have a year?? about 1700 (4 times whats here)... whats the population??? a lot more that 4 times whats here...
wonder why that is??

Victoria has over 5 million people and less deaths than here.
Victoria has a 110 limit on freeways, 100 everywhere else.
SA is 110, WA 110,

Spot the one with no speed limit!

Road Fatality Rates by State/Territory, 1995/2000
Per 100 000 population
State 2000 1995
NSW 9.39 10.14
VIC 8.54 9.28
QLD 8.92 13.91
SA 11.08 12.28
WA 11.31 12.07
TAS 9.14 12.05
NT 26.09 35.08
ACT 5.79 4.93
AUST 9.52 11.17

Makes ya think about speed limits when you can compare the differences in states (unlike here)


one thing to note is the toll in ACT is up...lets hope it politicians

[scumdog]

I also must admit that my view of, and satisfaction with the police has taken a backward step with my son being given a ticket for careless use after his crash the other day. Is he a careless driver? No, definitely not. He NEVER speeds, and is very attentive and careful. Inexperienced, yes; careless, no way!
How does a passing cop giving him a ticket (apparently, almost as an afterthought) help him be more careful or a better driver? :spudwhat:
He already has the penalty of a $1k insurance excess, the trauma of the crash to get over, and now has to deal with a court appearance and whatever the judge slaps him with. Eight hours after the crash, he was still trembling and upset.

I'll tell you how it helps: he won't be able to afford to drive on the road, especially if a conviction means he/we can't get insurance.

Good plan. Tax/fine/intimidate as many drivers/riders off the road as possible.

How DID your son crash?
IMHO it is part of life, you're young ,dumb and full of cum, you crash (don't have an "accident" these days) the law penalises you, they don't care if you have a $1,000 excess, why should the guy who has no excess because he can't afford anything other than third party insurance be penalised more because he does not have a $1,000 excess?

Careless Use - Driving in a Manner a Normal Prudent Motorist would Not.

Not winding you up, just pointing out one of lifes cruel facts.

If no one else involved/injured he will most likely get a moderate fine and no disqualification, good luck

[spudchucka]

Firestormer, I feel sorry for your son but pretty much anyone who crashes / loses control without a very good reason will find themselves charged with careless use. How else could the crash have happened if someone hadn't been careless, (please note I am NOT having a go at your boy).

Its a rough lesson for a young fella to learn and the whole family suffers through loss of no claims bonus etc. Those things are unfortuneate but not in themselves reason to not lay charges.

[AMPS]

Just a thought, how many road deaths does Australia have a year?? about 1700 (4 times whats here)... whats the population??? a lot more that 4 times whats here...
wonder why that is??

Victoria has over 5 million people and less deaths than here.
Victoria has a 110 limit on freeways, 100 everywhere else.
SA is 110, WA 110,

Spot the one with no speed limit!

Road Fatality Rates by State/Territory, 1995/2000
Per 100 000 population
State 2000 1995
NSW 9.39 10.14
VIC 8.54 9.28
QLD 8.92 13.91
SA 11.08 12.28
WA 11.31 12.07
TAS 9.14 12.05
NT 26.09 35.08
ACT 5.79 4.93
AUST 9.52 11.17

Makes ya think about speed limits when you can compare the differences in states (unlike here)


one thing to note is the toll in ACT is up...lets hope it politicians

Could it be that there are fewer people travelling further in NT and WA? Distances are longer, risk of fatigue greater.
There are also a lot of multiple fatals in NT, car loads of Aborigines with drunken drivers habitually wipe themselves out.
There's more to the story than a few stats.
Fatals per 10,000 vehicles may tell an interesting story.
Lou