Car vs. Bike crashes and injuries etc.

[Mike748]

I haven't researched this so I'm prepared to be corrected but over xmas weren't there about 15 deaths by drowning in only 3 weeks?
I also have some other random and unconfirmed stats from don't know where stuck in my head like.
1 in 4 will get cancer and
1 in 300 will die during elective surgery.

I agree motorcycling is a dangerous activity and it would be nice to have it put into a real perspective. ..... I doubt however that it will ever happen.

[dipshit]

Basically, IIRC m/c at fault entirely was around the 35% mark, the rest was varying degrees of shared responsibility...although around half of those were no fault of the biker, but s/he could have done something to avoid the collision.

Single vehicle, rider at fault... 26%

Multi vehicle, primary responsibility... 26%

(these first two = 52% rider at fault)

Multi vehicle, partial responsibility... 7%

Multi vehicle, no rider fault identified... 38%

Single vehicle, no rider fault identified... 3%

http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...et-July-07.pdf

[Macstar]

My own personal stats/observations:

I have witnessed 17 on-road motorcycle bins in 2.5 years (gave up counting the track bins and besides that's not relevant to the point I am about to make).

I have also stumbled across 2 motorcycle deaths not long after they occured, the most recent being last Saturday.

ALL OF THESE BINS (except the two deaths which I cannot comment on as I did not see them) WERE THE MOTORCYCLISTS FAULT I.E. RIDING BEYOND ABILITIES, SPEED, NOT PAYING ATTENTION, INADEQUATE FOLLOWING DISTANCES ETC. I have never witnessed an accident that was caused by another motorist on the road (other than a fellow biker that was guilty of the previously mentioned crimes).

Miraculously, none of the riders in these 17 bins were seriously injured i.e. bruises and scrapes was about the worst to occur, however several of these bikes have been written off and others probably should also have been...

Draw your own conclusions, but my two cents: If you don't want to see this many bins then avoid the ATNR and riding with learners. In fact, you're probably safer riding on your own with no one else to compete with or distract you - but that's not fun

[EnzoYug]

Never binned whilst riding by myself. It's group riding and city riding that'll kill you.
But I still believe that had I not been in a bad mood I would have got home fine and not woken up days later in Auck Central.

The rider is the only person who can be truly responsible* for a crash. After all if you're not willing to take responsibility for your own life - don't get on a bike.
Still - dangerous is what makes it fun eh?


*before anyone starts on me there is a difference between responsibility and blame / fault.

[James Deuce]

*before anyone starts on me there is a difference between responsibility and blame / fault.

Good luck with that. I think I have had about 12, no 13, new arseholes ripped for me for trying to communicate that distinction.

[Hillbilly]

A mate of mine absolutely hates riding up the F3 to our place. The F3 is the main freeway north from Sydney, though Newcastle up to Queensland. Although it's signposted at 110km/hr the flow of traffic on average is between 130km/hr and 145km/hr. The slow traffic moves at 120km/hr. My mate hates how the crazy Aussie cagers "crowd around him". They trat the F3 like a racetrack, with the same mentality. Biggest surprise? Tons of truck chrashes (major ones) and car chashes, but no bike accidents.

[madbikeboy]

I used to work with the CEO of the LTSA, trucks are massively over-represented in in accidents - I can't remember the exact numbers, but trucks make up under 10% of the national fleet, yet a significant proportion of fatal and injury accidents involve trucks (26% from memory).

This is where it gets hazy - if you look at the hours / km spent on the road by trucks, then that proportionate number looks less outrageous.

So, then we look at bikes. Very small proportion of the national fleet, fewer hours (especially if you consider weekend warriors), but 38 deaths last year. Massive over-representation.

Someone wrote the stat of 14 times more likely to be killed or injured - and intuitively, that makes sense.

Okay, so facts and bullshit aside, the real question here should be - how do we as a community reduce the number of fatalities and injuries?

I'd make the following observations:
- Training - we have godawful driver and rider training in this country. Take a look at Germany for an example of training.

- Attitude: As kiwi's, we're indestructable, aggressive, arrogant, and defensive of our patch of tarmac. Perhaps there might be an issue with that?

- Roads - everyone points at our poor quality of roads. I'd point to our poor decision making about speed and conditions

- Group mentality - I've made the point before about KB group rides, but there is a general concensus that there is a danger factor in these rides

- Poor support for new riders - we provide our new riders with bad advice about stepping up to new bikes. How often have we seen posts debating moving from a 250 to an SV1000 or similar. Macho advice without humility.

I don't like Katman popping up every two seconds and telling us we're all going to die - but if you decode what he is saying, he is saying that we as a group need to adjust our attitudes.

Now, I'm no saint. I approach my bike with humility and respect. It's fast enough - and to be honest, so is a 600. If I abuse my 1000cc bike, I'll die, it's that simple.

So, in conclusion - instead of picking lint out of navels about how the stats are made up, lets work out as a group how to reduce the number of injuries and deaths. I believe we can change with better attitudes, training, support, and advice.

Apologies to Georgie, I can't seem to help getting involved in the politics, I start to read some of the BS, and I find myself typing a response...

[Katman]

As Macstar pointed out, the stats that dipshit posted would look a whoooole lot worse if all motorcycle accidents were included. There must be countless that don't even make it on to public record.

[Katman]

I don't like Katman popping up every two seconds and telling us we're all going to die - but if you decode what he is saying, he is saying that we as a group need to adjust our attitudes.

Only just noticed this part of your post. The rest I thought was absolutely spot on.

(I don't ever recall saying what you've quoted me as saying though).

[swbarnett]

So, then we look at bikes. Very small proportion of the national fleet, fewer hours (especially if you consider weekend warriors), but 38 deaths last year. Massive over-representation.

How many bikes are used to commute etc.? The hours may not be that low? Does anyone know where I could get hold of km figures for bikes?

[dipshit]

Even "38 motorcyclists killed in 2006", is this on road, does it include scooters, farm bikes, trikes, quads?

Looking at accidents by engine size give some clues. After all, how many scooters or farm bikes are over 500cc.

http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...et-July-07.pdf

"A higher proportion of crashes involving large bikes (500ccs or bigger) result in death rather than injury - riders of large motorcycles make up 29 percent of all casualties but 41 percent of deaths. This is, at least partly, a result of riding patterns. Small motorcycles and scooters tend to be used for ‘around-town’ riding, where speeds are low, whereas large bikes spend a much greater proportion of time on the open road and travelling at higher speeds. For bikes 500cc or bigger, over half (56%) of all reported injury crashes are on the open road. This compares to only 8 percent for small bikes with an engine size under 125 cc and nearly a third (32%) for bikes with engine sizes of 125 – 499cc."

[James Deuce]

I haven't researched this so I'm prepared to be corrected but over xmas weren't there about 15 deaths by drowning in only 3 weeks?

And one yesterday that made me cry.

[BOGAR]

Twice as many people were murdered in 2006 (63) than biker fatalities, with another 34 people who tried to be killed (attempted homicide). There were 4,116 grievous assaults on people and 17,729 serious assaults.

I'm just trying to put this all in perspective with the theme that maybe motorcycling isn't really THAT dangerous in the scheme of things. If you just look at the stats then we are TWICE as likely to be MURDERED in NZ than to die in a motorbike crash! And 575 TIMES more likely to be at least seriously assaulted than to die in a crash!

I'm just throwing the idea out there that motorcycling isn't any more dangerous (if not less) than just living life in NZ around murderers and the such.

Thats a good point. I plan to keep on trying to improve but makes me slightly less worried about some of this hearsay.

[dipshit]

Thats a good point. I plan to keep on trying to improve but makes me slightly less worried about some of this hearsay.

That would have been relative only if everybody in New Zealand road motorcycles as well.

Imagine for example, if only 10 people in New Zealand flew hand gliders and 5 of them crashed and died a year. You could say only 5 hand glider's died in New Zealand last year... and that's about the same amount of people to get struck by lightning!

When in reality it is a 50% mortality rate per year. (for the people involved in the activity)

So you cannot conclude that you have as much chance of getting killed by lightning than having an accident flying hand gliders.

[madbikeboy]

Only just noticed this part of your post. The rest I thought was absolutely spot on.

(I don't ever recall saying what you've quoted me as saying though).

Katman, nothing but respect for you buddy!