Quads in NZ?

[Danger]

come to mx, heaps more passing lanes!!!

Nah mate each to their own but sitting around most of the day to go round and around a 800 metre track is what I find boring. I much prefer doing a 25-30km loop and clocking up between 120-160km of riding than spending all day to get about a 1 hours ride in. Especially as most of the races are only 10-15 mins long these days. I much preferred it when the MX races were 25-30 mins long and you used to come off after your race ready to puke and you couldn't hardly move the next two days. While I do the occasional MX race when there is nothing else on I'd rather just get my roundy round kicks in at Harrisville over a couple of hours on a Saturday and then do a decent ride again on Sunday.

Boy there sure are some sensitive quad riders out there or they are easy to wind up. Don't mind dammad1 he likes trying to wind others up. Other than a few comments I thought most here had been understanding and balanced towards quads and slower riders. I really didn't even think that there were that many quads out on the trails. They must all be posting on here.
So while everyones getting things of their chests I'll tell you what concerns me more than quads.
Quite a few trail rides have expert only loops or A and B options. Thats a good way of splitting up rider levels/abilities. But sometimes on an expert or A option you'll come across riders (mostly kids) that are clearly on a trail that they should not be, and there will be 3 or 4 of them stuck at the bottom of a hill or some other obstacle, ruining the run up for everyone else, or even riding backwards down the A loop trying to find their way out! I don't need to tell you how dangerous that is.
Or groups of riders will be parked up on the trail having a rest, rather than pulling off the riding line and keeping out of the way.
Or something I have witnessed in Riverhead forest. Dad and little Johny will decide to tackle loop A (which Waitemata club may have just cut in for that ride and marked an A loop for that reason) and dad will be riding ahead and removing all the loose logs and sticks trying to make the loop easier for little Johny to get around. Come on guys, stick to the B loop or at least don't make the A loop easier for those who prefer a challenge.
I knew there was a reason why I preferred week day riding. Less obstacles of the moving kind.

[Ktmboy]

Nah mate each to their own but sitting around most of the day to go round and around a 800 metre track is what I find boring. I much prefer doing a 25-30km loop and clocking up between 120-160km of riding than spending all day to get about a 1 hours ride in. Especially as most of the races are only 10-15 mins long these days. I much preferred it when the MX races were 25-30 mins long and you used to come off after your race ready to puke and you couldn't hardly move the next two days. While I do the occasional MX race when there is nothing else on I'd rather just get my roundy round kicks in at Harrisville over a couple of hours on a Saturday and then do a decent ride again on Sunday.

Boy there sure are some sensitive quad riders out there or they are easy to wind up. Don't mind dammad1 he likes trying to wind others up. Other than a few comments I thought most here had been understanding and balanced towards quads and slower riders. I really didn't even think that there were that many quads out on the trails. They must all be posting on here.
So while everyones getting things of their chests I'll tell you what concerns me more than quads.
Quite a few trail rides have expert only loops or A and B options. Thats a good way of splitting up rider levels/abilities. But sometimes on an expert or A option you'll come across riders (mostly kids) that are clearly on a trail that they should not be, and there will be 3 or 4 of them stuck at the bottom of a hill or some other obstacle, ruining the run up for everyone else, or even riding backwards down the A loop trying to find their way out! I don't need to tell you how dangerous that is.
Or groups of riders will be parked up on the trail having a rest, rather than pulling off the riding line and keeping out of the way.
Or something I have witnessed in Riverhead forest. Dad and little Johny will decide to tackle loop A (which Waitemata club may have just cut in for that ride and marked an A loop for that reason) and dad will be riding ahead and removing all the loose logs and sticks trying to make the loop easier for little Johny to get around. Come on guys, stick to the B loop or at least don't make the A loop easier for those who prefer a challenge.
I knew there was a reason why I preferred week day riding. Less obstacles of the moving kind.

No not fair! How is somebody supposed to become a better rider if they do not push themselves and try different options.

This is part of the reason there are Trail Rides so punters can ride the experience and try things out that they wouldn't have the opportunity to during a Cross country race, Enduro or MX, where they would hold traffic up. My take on it is "If you're that good and you want to pass then make your own track" within reason of course. If Whibley suddenly appears behind you, then rules do apply.

I'll always push Logan (son) to experiment and encourage him to try for the next level. They then get to an age and ability whereby they are confident to tackle red loops with confidence.

I do however agree that Quads should stay off knarly red tracks and it is up to the promoters to provide other options to prevent bottle necks. I suppose I'll have first hand experience organising Jolly Poacher Trail ride on the 27th April and will be judged by that.

[Danger]

But the world is not fair. Same reason "some" of these riders shouldn't be on the A loop is the same reason adults shouldn't be on the kids loops. Can I ride the kids loops at the bike park? Is that fair? Its for a reason. Now if I ride like a kid can I putt around the kids loop? Sometimes its just not possible to make a track around these backed up riders on the A loop. Now your kid (or even the slow kids or quads) won't be kicked out of a trail ride for attempting a trail that is beyond them. Nor should they be. But I bet I would be kicked out of the bike park if I start tearing it up around the kids loops.
If your kid is capable and can keep a pace up then its not a problem. Your probably with him to help also. Note I said some kids that are "clearly on a trail that they should not be". I've seen 3 or 4 kids struggling to make any impression at all on a hill climb that even experts have a hard time getting up (I'm thinking of a Power trail ride I did up north a year ago) and they had given up and 1 or 2 of them were riding back down the trail the wrong way to get out.

[takitimu]

If your kid is capable and can keep a pace up then its not a problem. Your probably with him to help also. Note I said some kids that are "clearly on a trail that they should not be". I've seen 3 or 4 kids struggling to make any impression at all on a hill climb that even experts have a hard time getting up (I'm thinking of a Power trail ride I did up north a year ago) and they had given up and 1 or 2 of them were riding back down the trail the wrong way to get out.

Part of that though is the definition of "expert" loop, sometimes these are not that hard, other times they really are genuine "expert" loops, which has to be confusing for the kids ( who'll always want to push it anyway ), it's not always practical, but would be cool to have a real hard start to the expert sections that allows those not quite skilled enough yet to divert back to the main loop if they can't make it.

Mind you coming around a corner & seeing a rider coming towards you would definitely be a sphincter clenching moment.

This has been a good thread actually, lots of different perspectives, certainly made me think more about different riders.

[Danger]

Yes your quite right, some of the A loops are perfectly ridable and may just be a longer loop.
I noticed at one of Powers trail rides at Maramarua earlier this year he had a turn of called Suicide Drop experts only. Drops are something I'm not that keen on (witness my endo on the Dead Toad lol) so I avoided this all day until my last loop when I was probably the only person still out riding. I didn't want to emabarass myself on the drop. So I was casually doing this track with the Suicide Drop, riding slower than normal so I didn't get caught out by the drop and this track went on and on until I forgot about the drop. I figured out it was just a little steep down hill, no drop at all! But it did have a cool little hill climb at the end of the loop which I was disapointed to only have one ride up.
For the most part Greg's trail rides are ridable by most regardless of ability. Some of the Waitemata Clubs loops are a different story and really do test you.

[mazz1972]

LOL... keep it coming
Just show all those two wheel riders that you really are big men by doing some donuts in the carpark of the next trail ride just to show how talented you guys really are

Way to go if you want to REALLY PISS THE LANDOWNER OFF.

Not in the carpark dude.

Ever.

[mazz1972]

ohh deer and i thought i had issues lol
at the end of the day we're lucky we have places to ride, some countrys you have to apply for permits to ride off road.
as for trail rides, they are mostly fundraisers for schools and small clubs and we are lucky that the farmers and forest owners open up and allow us to tear thier padocks and races up.
yeah there are some of us who race arround and try to do it as fast as we can, ( im guilty of this as many are) purely to push my self to the max.
maybe we need to have a lil patence from time to time and bite that tounge.
there enough people out there wrecking it for us with us helping them.
ramble ramble ramble thats my ramblings anyway.

Couldn't agree more! Bling coming your way.

[mazz1972]

Wow has this thread gotten way off track!!

It's almost impossible to cater for everyones ability level at a trail ride, regardless of being 2 or 4 wheeled variety. Some of you are out there to trash the balls off your bikes and be damned anyone who gets in your way. Others are out for a more sedate ride, maybe with the wife and kids. First time trail riders. Kids. Some riders may be quite inexperienced - perhaps it's their first ride, but they will improve with each ride. Everyone has paid money to be there, so everyone needs to be excercise a bit of patience and being courteous to the other riders.

Quite a few trail rides have expert only loops or A and B options. Thats a good way of splitting up rider levels/abilities. But sometimes on an expert or A option you'll come across riders (mostly kids) that are clearly on a trail that they should not be, and there will be 3 or 4 of them stuck at the bottom of a hill or some other obstacle, ruining the run up for everyone else

Not all A loops are created equal. If some of the better riders would take 5 mins to give these people/kids some pointers on how to attack the hill or obstacle, or help them get their bike up the hill, they would be on their merry way and the problem would be solved.

If everyone at a ride was to help one other rider along the way, the whole ride goes alot smoother, as marshals can't be everywhere at once!

[dammad1]

Way to go if you want to REALLY PISS THE LANDOWNER OFF.

Not in the carpark dude.

Ever.

Well clearly that one went straght over your head. LOL

[telliman]

Yes your quite right, some of the A loops are perfectly ridable and may just be a longer loop.
I noticed at one of Powers trail rides at Maramarua earlier this year he had a turn of called Suicide Drop experts only. Drops are something I'm not that keen on (witness my endo on the Dead Toad lol) so I avoided this all day until my last loop when I was probably the only person still out riding. I didn't want to emabarass myself on the drop. So I was casually doing this track with the Suicide Drop, riding slower than normal so I didn't get caught out by the drop and this track went on and on until I forgot about the drop. I figured out it was just a little steep down hill, no drop at all! But it did have a cool little hill climb at the end of the loop which I was disapointed to only have one ride up.
For the most part Greg's trail rides are ridable by most regardless of ability. Some of the Waitemata Clubs loops are a different story and really do test you.

so are you talking about kids or rider ability? in mx the etiquit is to hold your line, not atempt to move out of the way.i understand your frustration at slower riders danger, but remember it is courtesy to let you by, not a must! me enjoying the thread too, good insight. whilst you may not remember wat its like to have a gun(like yourself) up your ass some of us like to be pushed to another level, untill we meet a tree anyway, and then the trails all yours!!!

[Danger]

I like riding with the guys I ride with, we push each other. And I like riding with riders better than me. I don't expect someone who is slightly slower than me to get out of the way. If I catch them in the trees and we come out onto a gravel road I will sit behind them until we are back in the trees, I will not over take them on the gravel unless they are clearly slower and holding me up. I enjoy the chase as much as I'm sure they are and I try to keep the pressure on until they make a mistake and vice versa when someone is pushing me. If I'm slightly slower than them I like to be pushed. Often if its near the end of a loop you catch up with each other and become freinds from the competition (most of my riding buddies have been met like this). But we are of a similar ability. Now if Paul Whibley was to scream up my date I'll be pulling over pronto. He doesn't need the level of competition I can provide him.
If you read back through the posts you will see where I have said riders who are "clearly on a trail that they should not be" but its all been said now over and over and whats the point of going over it again? Its only my point of view that its a concern when inexperienced riders are mixed in with experts on expert loops. I think the example of experienced riders not being allowed on the kids loops is a good one. With good reason. But it doesn't seem to cut both ways, does it? Is it any less dangerous if you put a fast rider on a slow riders track or a slow rider on a fast riders track? Once again I'm not saying that kids (or slower riders) should be banned from the expert loops, but if they are on the expert loop I do expect them to pull over when you come up on them with twice their speed. Is that really too much to ask? And as I have said most of them do so. Others seem to take the attitude of some that have posted and seem to think why should I pull over? Some places you can pass by making your own track, others you can't.
I stay of the short loops and the B loops to avoid the more casual rider, because the pace is a lot slower on those loops. I will usually warm up on a B loop and perhaps finish on a B loop when most of the riders have gone home for the day. But through the day me and my mates are doing almost entirely A or expert loops as fast as we can. By the way I always yell out a thanks when the majority of riders do pull over. Thats after yelling at them to stand up instead of sitting down and paddling down a rutty hill with legs out in all directions lol!

[telliman]

Thats after yelling at them to stand up instead of sitting down and paddling down a rutty hill with legs out in all directions lol![/QUOTE]

so you;ve passed me a few times then?haha.
i do hear wat your saying mate.

[Danger]

Cool. I was starting to despair lol! Sometimes I'm not good at getting my point across without too many words and I think maybe I should just not bother.

[vr4king]

Ive always thought that its the faster riders job to get round you at least on a mx track

I have had a friend try and get round me on a fairly fast trail and couldnt but after it was over he said its one off the best times hes had on a ride as i was dropping into all his lines etc and he was smiling from ear to ear with the challenge that i laid down...........and i was aware it was him behind me

If I dont know the faster rider on a trail I happily pull over WHEN I CAN SAFELY some people cant wait that long i guess

[B0000M]

Thats after yelling at them to stand up instead of sitting down

lol, he's not making this up, he actually does!

i completely agree with danger, with my poor fitness but reasonable ability i see it from both angles, at the start of the day i appreciate it when slower riders where there is room, making room for me to get passed where there otherwise wouldnt be, and towards the end of the day as my pace has dropped right off i try to do the same for the faster riders.

as said earlier - in mx the etiquate (sp) is hold your line, however MX tracks are generally at least a couple of meters wide minimum, so this doesnt really work out in the bush a lot of the time.