Serious Crash Unit last night (early this morning)

[scrivy]

R
The difference is between our ears..

errrr, ummm, you mean wax??!!

[90s]

Remember - you tend to go where you're looking, so if you see a problem, and keep looking AT IT, then you'll likely hit it. If you start looking for a way out, or around (or even a soft spot to hit ), as soon as you see the problem (or even the first sign of a possible problem), then the odds are immediately better for you.

Yeah, all good points.
Think BIKE not CAGE and see the solutions that aren't there for cages.

But if you brake - do it right and do it hard.
That's why its good to practice braking and emegency countersteering. As they say - you will do in an emergency what you usually do.
If you usually practive hard correct braking and countersteering until its instinctive, look for gaps in you everyday ride, then when disaster looms you will do the right thing, because you are prepared for it.

Takes us back to the subject of the thread doesn't it? Ride a bike unprepared and think like a cager react like a cage and even at 70kph you end up dead.

[steveb64]

Yeah, all good points.
Think BIKE not CAGE and see the solutions that aren't there for cages.

But if you brake - do it right and do it hard.
That's why its good to practice braking and emegency countersteering. As they say - you will do in an emergency what you usually do.
If you usually practive hard correct braking and countersteering until its instinctive, look for gaps in you everyday ride, then when disaster looms you
will do the right thing, because you are prepared for it.

Takes us back to the subject of the thread doesn't it? Ride a bike unprepared and think like a cager react like a cage and even at 70kph you end up dead.

My favourite 'emergency braking practice' places are traffic lights - or sometimes, just a regular intersection, as long as:

1. Tyres are warm.
2. There's no one behind me.
3. There's no one anywhere else either! (People tend to give you odd looks when you come screaming into a red light, then jam on the brakes for no real obvious reason! ).
4. The road is DRY!

Aim to stop at a point about 5 metres BEFORE where you are supposed to be stopping, and give it heaps! If you get it right, you will end up stopping WELL before your target point. If you get it wrong - you may end up on your face - but better the hard learn without any cars to hit you, and just the road to hit, than having to worry about hitting a car, or being run over by one...

REMEMBER to let go the brakes if anything starts to skid! That extra 5 metres can be useful...

Looking for gaps, and learning lines can even be done while doing the pedestrian thing - I recall Roger Freeth being quoted as saying that he used to practice his cornering lines walking between lectures at Uni., and I used to do similar when I used to do the commuter thing on the train in Wellington - passing all the other commuters, power walking to work from the station!

[Warwick in NZ]

In my experience, front vs back brake use on a pushbike isn't much different from on a motorbike: if you want to stop fast, you have to use the front brake.

Mind you, when I was 10 years old all the kids in the neighbourhood knew with absolute certainty that if you ever used the front brake on your bike you'd go over the handlebars. As an adult cyclist, it didn't take me too long to realise that was wrong.

Hi, I agree, a bicycle and motorcycle are not that different. The difference is in the power plant and the weight. It still works off the Castor Angle.

Have a look at the down hill mountain bikers, yes they lay low for the speed and it goes with the thought of needing to brake behind the front wheel (so they don't go head over heels) and having weight over the back wheel for braking and side control.

It was interesting went i did my Rider Training, that the instuctor was not going to let his 6 year old on a motorcycle until he was preforming the moves on a bicycle around the cones correctly.

The paralells are there, Warwick

[scumdog]

My favourite 'emergency braking practice' places are traffic lights - or sometimes, just a regular intersection, as long as:

1. Tyres are warm.
2. There's no one behind me.
3. There's no one anywhere else either! (People tend to give you odd looks when you come screaming into a red light, then jam on the brakes for no real obvious reason! ).
4. The road is DRY!!

Regarding No.4 - I would say it would be at least as important to practice on a wet road surface too.?

After all, an emergency braking situation is just as likely to happen when it's raining.

Not knocking your idea - just adding to it.

[terbang]

errrr, ummm, you mean wax??!!

Well if that's (as you imply) all you have between your ears, then it wont.

[skidMark]

Regarding No.4 - I would say it would be at least as important to practice on a wet road surface too.?

After all, an emergency braking situation is just as likely to happen when it's raining.

Not knocking your idea - just adding to it.

Nahhhh in the wet you stonk the rear then pin the gas and drift past them full lock sideways knee down ripping the bird.

[DEATH_INC.]

ummmm

you bring on the rear then the fronts?

This is correct, if you use the rear a fraction before the front it'll squat the rear of the bike a bit which lessens weight transfer, thus allowing harder braking before the rear wheel lifts. I use the rear brake so much I can hardly ride without it....

[steveb64]

Regarding No.4 - I would say it would be at least as important to practice on a wet road surface too.?

After all, an emergency braking situation is just as likely to happen when it's raining.

Not knocking your idea - just adding to it.

This is a good point - but the road around traffic lights is often so contaminated with oil and other similarly slippy shite, that practising your panic stops when it's wet may end up being a little more exciting than originally planned!

Even regular 'Give ways' can be bloody slippery... An example springs (?!) to mind - heading up to Manfield one rainy night, taking the back road that goes behind Levin (down past the hospital/home), rain and fogged up visor combined at the intersection to trick me into thinking that the intersection was a 'Tee'. Grabbed a big handful of brakes, and the front went! OFF the brakes - "FUCK - I'm not gonna stop!". Grab the brakes again - cue ANOTHER huge front skid! Off the brakes again, then feed them back on again a wee bit more gently. Managed to get everything hauled up - sitting on the middle of the white centre line of the intersection - looking at the road carrying on in front of me... thinking "Well, must remember that one next time... ...at least if I'd totally fucked it up - I had some road to overshoot onto!". Clicked back into gear, and sploshed off towards Manfield...

Ideally - dirt bikes (on the dirt) are the things to use for practising braking during wet slippy conditions. Don't break so easily, and when you mess it up, and land on yer face - dirt/mud hurts MUCH less! (Most of the time! )
IMO - The main practice for wet braking is locking the front - THEN LETTING GO THE BRAKES, and then feeding them back on again! Not that easy on a road bike, and bad if ya get it wrong... hence point 4!

[terbang]

When it comes to the back/front combination we have a large amount of variables that make any braking arguement difficult. Whilst the basic principles remain the same, variables like road surface, bike type & configuration, bike speed, wet/dry, straight line/cornering and even rider experience will deternine the apropriate technique. Emergency braking can be required at any time and we should all practise it to keep that skill current. However like a lot of things in life, forward planning or reading a situation well in advance is the key to success.
In other words, looking ahead to eliminte the surprises and avoid the emergencies.
For example, riding at warp eight along a busy road with lots of blind side intersections risks testing out your emergency brake technique (which may or may not work for you).
On a road riding (not track) course in Aussie a wee while back, they taught us to "setup" when in anticipation of a quick stop. What they meant was that it is better to start your braking with 2 steps. An initial (gentle) touch of both brakes, as you anticipate a developing situation, to take the slack out of the suspension and to get the weight transferring towards the front wheel in preparation for a poosible stop (The bike is still manouvreable at this stage if required). This can then easily be followed by the big straight line onto the anchors, max braking, stop being heavily biased toward the front wheel. The other spin off of the setup is that your brake light will give those behind you a heads upon what may happen next. When I make comments about the difference being between your ears, I say that in the light that riding a motorcycle is very much about management skills going hand in hand with manipulative skills. We need to develop both of them, ask any successful racer. Anyone can twist a throttle, but those that do so with knowledge and skill do it better and safer.

[Bren]

Takes us back to the subject of the thread doesn't it? Ride a bike unprepared and think like a cager react like a cage and even at 70kph you end up dead.

some of us dead many times over...i still say that people should ride a bike for a couple of years before they even learn to drive....will kill off the stupid drivers and leave us with good drivers!

some of the posts here have mirrored my style of braking. I hardly touch front in town, mainly use rear, but at the open road I use both more evenly, and am always looking for "an out", also always ride with my fingers caressing the brake leaver AND the horn!