Cheesecutters, that bad?

[Ryder]

Snipers. Snipers are the answer.

so tempting.....

[Tumbles]

are cheesecutters really that bad?
no 8 wire fences that line just about every country road seem just as lethal, with their big strainer posts.
and what can be done about them.
i remember seeing a RSV-R that had gone through one, the rider was dead.
the thing is if you run wide into one, your going to get hurt.
And cheesecutters are on straight roads! (mainly)

I think the main issue is that Cheese Cutters are used as median barriers on busy roads. Busy roads = far greater chance of motorcyclist accidents by people changing lanes, nose to tail or a raft of other reasons. They are basically installing these things on the roads MOST likely to experience motorcyclist crashes.

I ride to work each day in Wellington and the amount they are used down here now is just crazy. Even riding real conservative and avoiding people's blind spot I've still had three separate incidents of only avoiding a cheese cutter impact by less than a foot clearance and instant reactions due to idiots changing lanes at the last second. These things are an absolute death trap.

The next person who is killed by these things, their family should bring a private manslaughter prosecution against the CEO (or whatever their position is called) of TRANZIT. It has already been proven in court that if you know of a problem and can do something about it, if someone dies due to that problem, you can be held criminally liable. Its affecting the military in a big way. Im no lawyer, but I would put money on being able to prosecute for this.

[WelshWizard]

I think the main issue is that Cheese Cutters are used as median barriers on busy roads. Busy roads = far greater chance of motorcyclist accidents by people changing lanes, nose to tail or a raft of other reasons. They are basically installing these things on the roads MOST likely to experience motorcyclist crashes.

I ride to work each day in Wellington and the amount they are used down here now is just crazy. Even riding real conservative and avoiding people's blind spot I've still had three separate incidents of only avoiding a cheese cutter impact by less than a foot clearance and instant reactions due to idiots changing lanes at the last second. These things are an absolute death trap.

The next person who is killed by these things, their family should bring a private manslaughter prosecution against the CEO (or whatever their position is called) of TRANZIT. It has already been proven in court that if you know of a problem and can do something about it, if someone dies due to that problem, you can be held criminally liable. Its affecting the military in a big way. Im no lawyer, but I would put money on being able to prosecute for this.

THe HelenGrad lot took that right away even Osh can't do Transit now because they have been protected from legal action by the Beehive

[stormy1]

IF cheesecutters are going to be installed then they should be installed with the manufacturers reccomended median (3m) and not like along centenial highway (Coastal highway - Kapiti) where the median is at best 500mm.

Ok, time to wade into a thread that invokes strong feelings (he takes a deep breath). As far as I am aware when it comes to centennial highway (and my comments only relate to this section of road), what was the alternative? People (yeah ok peps in cars but they are still NZers) were killiing themselves along this strecth of highway by crossing the centreline into the paths of oncoming vehicles. Have any of you measured the width of a concrete barrier at the foot of them (widest part)? No way could you fit this type of barrier and have sufficient lane width left along this section of SH plus there is the well known effect of "shy lines". This is where if you put in a solid barrier, people naturally travel a lot further to the left, once again needing wider lanes.

Yes Cheesecutters are not biker friendly, nor is a car crossing the centreline into a bike along this stretch of highway. Either way I think the biker is going to come off second best.

Now for the insults?

[MSTRS:Me]

Now for the insults?

No. You are entitled to your opinion, and at least you attempt to explain the reason you believe what you do.
You are wrong though. Sure concrete may appear to take more room at the base, but it doesn't move when struck. Where do you think the wires etc go, when the manufacturer specifies a 3m flex area each side? Not to mention the shattered bits of post that fly all over the place.

[Dave-]

they stop the majority of stuff from crashing into the majority of stuff comming the other way at a price that cant be beat.

following from wire rope barriers I think we should also bubble wrap cars and wear 3ft thick padding incase we fall off.

power poles too should be removed or modified and made out of jelly so when stuff crashes into them no one is injured.

[swbarnett]

Ok, time to wade into a thread that invokes strong feelings (he takes a deep breath). As far as I am aware when it comes to centennial highway (and my comments only relate to this section of road), what was the alternative? People (yeah ok peps in cars but they are still NZers) were killiing themselves along this strecth of highway by crossing the centreline into the paths of oncoming vehicles. Have any of you measured the width of a concrete barrier at the foot of them (widest part)? No way could you fit this type of barrier and have sufficient lane width left along this section of SH plus there is the well known effect of "shy lines". This is where if you put in a solid barrier, people naturally travel a lot further to the left, once again needing wider lanes.

The trouble is that, according to the manufacturers instructions, WRBs require a 6m corridor to work properly. This is a lot wider than concrete.

I wonder if anyone has thought of just putting up those flimsy centre-line marker poles. These would not stop loss of control incidents but they would certainly have a psychological affect on drivers that are prone to overtake in the wrong place.

[Quasievil]

power poles too should be removed or modified and made out of jelly so when stuff crashes into them no one is injured.

thats stupid the warm light will melt the jelly, maybe a refridgerated pole system with a cold kind of gas in it would work ?

anyway if they are strawberry they are fucked cause I for a start would eat them

[raftn]

thats stupid the warm light will melt the jelly, maybe a refridgerated pole system with a cold kind of gas in it would work ?

anyway if they are strawberry they are fucked cause I for a start would eat them

I prefere the orange flavoured jelly! Yummmmmmmmm............I dont think jelly powere poles would worl very well, i would take them home and put them in the bath....that would be fun!

[swbarnett]

It has been said that WRBs aren't as bad as power poles. The justification being that there have been more deaths and serious injuries (DSI) from collisions with power poles than there have been from collisions with WRBs.

The problem with this argument is that power poles line a great deal more of NZs roads than WRBs do. It would be more accurate to compare DSIs as relating to WRBs and power poles were compared on a per km basis.

[MSTRS:Me]

Plus statistics over time. Powerpoles have been around 'forever' - not so WRB. As the saying goes...If it hasn't happened yet, give it time
And plus, with powerpoles there are almost always options, with the big gaps between them. Where is this option with cheesecutter?

[slimjim]

more people drown ...than what these will cause.....yet we all enjoy a day at the beach...as we do travelling in vehicles of any make....

[stormy1]

Plus statistics over time. Powerpoles have been around 'forever' - not so WRB. As the saying goes...If it hasn't happened yet, give it time
And plus, with powerpoles there are almost always options, with the big gaps between them. Where is this option with cheesecutter?

The problem with power poles (and trees for that matter) is a thing called the Possum Syndrome. You look at the object that you dont want to hit, and end up driving/riding straight into it!

[MSTRS:Me]

The problem with power poles (and trees for that matter) is a thing called the Possum Syndrome. You look at the object that you dont want to hit, and end up driving/riding straight into it!

True, that. The other old saying "Look where you are going, 'cause you'll go where you're looking" covers that. At least there is a choice of where to look (gaps). No gaps with a continuous barrier.
I still won't be convinced that a fence that slices and dices bodies is a safety feature. And when they are installed on the road edge AND down the middle...

[WelshWizard]

The way they are installing WRB's it won't be long before there are more WRB posts along side the roads of NZ than Power poles, and as MSTRS states give it time