KB = Mourning

[FROSTY:Me]

On a different vein I must say I FOR ME disagree with Sixpacback Regarding closing a meeting down if I was to die.
I know there is NO comparisson but I was apsolutely gutted when told that my accident in may caused the cancellation of the Vic Club meeting that day.
If I died I would hope that the meeting carried on.

[90s]

I can not control anyone else's riding and especially with the people I care about I just have to trust they know there own limits.

Well you can choose not to ride with people who's riding you can't control and/or don't trust.
If a road is very dangerous for bikes you can find another longer route.
If you can not control the environment you can choose not to enter it or find ways to adapt it.

[Daffyd]

A very, very pertinent thread!

As some of you know, I have 4 sons and a daughter, all of whom ride, or have ridden bikes. Only my daughter has given up, a bit hard to cart 2 kids around on a scooter.
Recently 3 of my sons and I completed a 10 day tour of the South Island, (no 4 is on his OE.) We don't often ride all together, but make it a priority to do at least one good ride together each year.
I am under no illusions that, statisically, one of us will die on the road. I hope not. Some of the best moments of my life have been spent on the road with my boys, and if the unthinkable happens, then I will not say, "I wish we had not taken up riding." Sure, there will be a huge hole in the lives of those left behind, but none of us would swap the thrill of riding for a more mundane life.

Personally, all I can do is encourage them to ride with safety in mind, while not seeming to be a nagging old fart!

As an aside, the daily average number of people on the site is 1194.

[TonyB]

As has been said- the nature of this site exposes you to an artificially high number of people, who you would otherwise never meet. So you make more friends. More friends = more chance of one of them dieing.

Then you have the fact that this site has 11,000 or so members and a high number of active members. So you hear about all those accidents too.

Then you have the people who listen to police scanners and post up on KB whenever they hear of an accident...which starts the 'RIP fallen rider" threads.

So you are pretty much reading about EVERY serious motorcycle accident that happens in NZ... Imagine if car drivers were bombarded with info on EVERY serious car accident- it just doesn't happen. The nature of KB is such that if you spend a lot of time on here, you WILL hear about EVERY serious accident.

Its only natural that this will have an effect on many of us.

[James Deuce]

On a different vein I must say I FOR ME disagree with Sixpacback Regarding closing a meeting down if I was to die.
I know there is NO comparisson but I was apsolutely gutted when told that my accident in may caused the cancellation of the Vic Club meeting that day.
If I died I would hope that the meeting carried on.

Of course you would. Like most other bikers, the concept of simple human respect and dignity slides right on by.

"They died doing what they love" has to be the biggest crock of proverbial ever written about anyone who snuffed it ever. It's no solace.

[Swoop]

Far from the emphasis on 'young idiots' in this forum, the most at risk groups are males between 34-45, esp. those that have 'returned' to biking.

According to who?

[Katman]

"They died doing what the love" has to be the biggest crock of proverbial ever written about anyone who snuffed it ever. It's no solace.

I doubt that any person who has attended a fatal accident has seen what could be described as a smile on the deceased's face.

[onearmedbandit]

It's a saying ffs, only there to help those affected by the passing of someone else. No one is actually suggesting people die with a smile on their face. But if the thought of your loved one dying doing something they loved makes the pain a little bit easier then why not?

[Skyryder]

On a different vein I must say I FOR ME disagree with Sixpacback Regarding closing a meeting down if I was to die.
I know there is NO comparisson but I was apsolutely gutted when told that my accident in may caused the cancellation of the Vic Club meeting that day.
If I died I would hope that the meeting carried on.

I don't doubt the sincerity of your convictions. No one wants their actions to be an inconveniance to others be it even because of their own demise. But there a greater issue, as I see it, and that is one of respect. A life has been lost and its 'carry on as normal.' Sorry that's just plain 'old fashioned' wrong.


Skyryder

[FROSTY:Me]

Of course you would. Like most other bikers, the concept of simple human respect and dignity slides right on by.

"They died doing what the love" has to be the biggest crock of proverbial ever written about anyone who snuffed it ever. It's no solace.

We will have to agree to disagree there Jim
I am talking from MY prospective if it happened to ME.
As such if you were showing respect to ME you would indeed carry on.
I'm NOT saying this applies in every or for that matter any other case what I am saying it is what I would want.
My lovely lady may feel different as may my freinds -I respect that.
In the same way as I would respect that YOU feel that if I died YOU would want the meeting /event shut down.

Perhaps sounding hypocitical here but on the same account if someone died at a KB trackday or a meeting I was running my call would be to call it quits on the day.
That would be for the marshals and others out there trying to deal with such a horrible event.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It's a saying ffs, only there to help those affected by the passing of someone else. No one is actually suggesting people die with a smile on their face. But if the thought of your loved one dying doing something they loved makes the pain a little bit easier then why not?

I'm with you there. As much as I'd love to stay 'round forever, I know I won't.

I'd rather be racing bikes or having sex when I depart than sitting at work or mowing lawns.

[Maha]

Some months back I had a chance to let a couple of mates know just how i feel, not going to get into the reasons why but, what i will say is, i had to let them know that I care about them, they mean an awful lot to Anne and myself. Now in the tragic case of Loosebruce and Dss3, would it be fair to say that had Bruce Survived, that he could have been charged with Manslaughter? (at the extreme) I refer to this -- ''Loosebruce took out Dss3''
Its just a case in point, im not having a dig at the deceased. Being responsable for your actions, i agree with Jim2 in that, they/he died what they/he loved doing...na ah, im positive they would much rather be alive doing what they love doing. I have organised 10 rides in the last 2 years, each one without incident, and i have riders turn up that can ride with the best of ya, I have never had to tell anyone to fuck off, which will happen if i think they are putting anyone in danger.

[Maha]

A statistic that is possibly irrelevant.

I agree, but it was totally relevent to what i had to say...if people would read and take in eveything, they would see the relevance of peoples posts, but then again, there would be no debate if a post was read thoroughly.

[MSTRS:Me]

Of course you would. Like most other bikers, the concept of simple human respect and dignity slides right on by.

"They died doing what the love" has to be the biggest crock of proverbial ever written about anyone who snuffed it ever. It's no solace.

I don't usually disagree with you, young fella, but I'll have to here..
Continuing to run a race meeting after a fatality is a call the organisers make on the day. Different day/organisers = different call? Maybe. I don't think it has anything to do with (a lack of) respect tho. People who race, and watch racing, know the risks, and if the worst happens....well...c'est la vie (sort of). Now, as Frosty says, a trackday is a different scenario altogether and fair enough to close that down in such an event.
As far as dying doing what they loved...why not. Just about anything one can say after a death is some sort of platitude. At least that one is honest.

[90s]

According to who?

Some of the information is difficult to unpack or not recorded. According to sources and the police and BRONZ, the I have seen (but do not have record of) that motorcycle vs motorcyle incidents on a continious curve over the last 10 years, from a very low base. I am not implying they form a large number, but a rising category. You will note that the classification v22 (motorcycle rider injured in collision with 2 or 3 wheeled vehicle) data is not easily available (for example from http://www.otago.ac.nz/ipru/Reports/...jury200502.pdf) and generally not recorded in data through LTNZ (ie. in http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...et-July-07.pdf).
The type of accident is poorly recorded, but I think a real issue.

As for the age this is interesting - esp. bearing in mind the overall reduction in motorcyle deaths (makes the above even more relevant). Please see tables "motorcycle deaths and injuries by age group" and esp. "motorcyclsts killed and injured by selected age groups":
http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...et-July-07.pdf
You will note the trends esp in the 2nd table for the deaths in the group 2-24 yrs vs. the groups 30-39 and 40 and over.
Examining:
http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...ycles-2006.pdf
also shows the reducing number of deaths - against the general perception of this thread - to about 1/3 of 1980 levels in toto (see figure 19 and also table "deaths and injuries of motorcycle riders and pillion passengers 1980-2006", source: http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...et-July-07.pdf)
and as a percentage of overall road deaths down from 20% to 6-7% 'only', although the first source comparable but slightly different figs.)
Fig 20 "percentage of motorcyle casualties by age and sex" conflates injuries and deaths so gives a different view, but the 'hump' of riders between 30-54 is clear. A review of several sources in addition to these confirms what I said earlier, and you can review that is generally older riders on bigger bikes who have high risk of death. Ask BRONZ too.

I have to do some work, but again back to FROSTY's thread, the perception is not reality. The reason riders like you and me, older riders on bigger bikes, are more likely to be killed despite safety improvement and an overall decline in deaths from motorcycling is because of the way we are riding.
Don't think I don't reflect on that a lot.