1st Bin: Binned my new bike

**pete376403** · 13th March 2008, 19:22

Originally Posted by Boob Johnson

That's the story, don't know anything about the Shinko's had never heard of them until today but anything that cheap is usually for a good reason

Shinko are what used to be known as Yokohama. Yokohama got out of the motorcycle tyre business and sold the equipment to what is know known as Shinko in Korea. Yokohama engineers setup the plant in the new location and stayed with Shinko for an initial period while they established themselves. They've been in business for a good few years.

www.shinkotire.co.kr if you can read Korean Hanguel

**MVnut** · 13th March 2008, 19:35

Originally Posted by aff-man

Glad to hear you didn't come off to bad mate....

Hey frostmister sorry but gonna have to disagree with you about them tyres..

Sure a noobs would probably not be able to tell a shinko from an M3 from a supercorsa from a whatever... But it doesn't mean that the tyres won't behave differently. Coming into a corner at say 100 clicks and tipping it in or not tipping it in, tyre profile and grip have a lot to do with how you come out the other side. Cheaper tyres that offer less grip will see you drifting (even if you are not aware of it) more than stickier ones. So although it is most likely rider error, given the same situation on different tryes may have given that extra edge. But for an unexperienced rider being able to use that extra edge is just luck...

Just my opinion but i've run cheaper tyres once or twice and is why i'll go for the ex racies over the new cheapies any day.

Shouldn't make the difference between binning and not binning in this scenario

**Stromble** · 13th March 2008, 20:14

Ok... I think we can rule out the tyre... and indeed it was my error, in a lapse of concentration when I felt I was drifting, I looked at the bend, hit the bend.. hard..

As I said before, I dont think its to blame, I just wanted to hear folks opinions on running the oversized tyre and what effects it may have on the bike..?

What would be the differences in cornering, grip etc with a 170/16/17 than a standard 160/6017 ? anyone tried this?

**tri boy** · 13th March 2008, 20:15

Another point to remember is your position on the road prior to tipping in.
A metre closer to the centre line on a right hander is going to tighten your line considerably more than if you were wider/closer to the left.
Things get really busy really quickly in this situation, and being cranked over sometimes just isn't enough. (although the comments on target fixation, and the bikes ability are both spot on). Glad you walked away. Some don't.

With regards to tyre size and grip, there will be little difference in grip. But definitely a difference in the bikes cornering characteristic. Although, I don't think this will be too obvious to 90% of us riders.

**Kittyhawk** · 13th March 2008, 20:36

Originally Posted by tsmj

Spare Towel ??
Extra underwear - Fair enough..
Sliders - Oh Shit...

Youll know when it happens....someone has to demonstrate stationary throttle control

**Gaz** · 13th March 2008, 20:49

Originally Posted by tsmj

Ok... I think we can rule out the tyre... and indeed it was my error, in a lapse of concentration when I felt I was drifting, I looked at the bend, hit the bend.. hard..

As I said before, I dont think its to blame, I just wanted to hear folks opinions on running the oversized tyre and what effects it may have on the bike..?

What would be the differences in cornering, grip etc with a 170/16/17 than a standard 160/6017 ? anyone tried this?

Hey fella, - you didn't need more grip. Looking where you WILL go is a rule of physics. BUT I'm amazed no-one has mentioned counter-steering. Practicing this (emergency counter-steering) could actually save your life. l

**Stromble** · 13th March 2008, 21:03

Originally Posted by Gaz

Hey fella, - you didn't need more grip. Looking where you WILL go is a rule of physics. BUT I'm amazed no-one has mentioned counter-steering. Practicing this (emergency counter-steering) could actually save your life. l

Thanks Gaz,

I used countersteer all the time, and even consciously once used it in emergency when a car pulled straight out in from of me from the left, I even suprised my self what the bike could do (and I have a V-strom at the time, bloody heavy!)

Only this time I didnt, weird, I really did get transfixed on where I was going to ditch the bike....

Though appreciate the advice, will be definately practising my cornering and counter steering abilities once im back up..

**Grub** · 13th March 2008, 21:13

Originally Posted by tsmj

The bike has Shinko tyres which arent stock, I think this bike sells new with Bridgestone BT020's 160/60/17 back and 120/70/17 front.. though upon closer inspection, the rear Shinko is 170/60/17...

Without jumping to assumptions that this would be dangerous or have contributed to my bin, I am interested to know the thoughts on fitting oversized tyres to bikes? I know people do it to cars, but doesnt seem as risky when you have 4 wheels..

Any wisdom would be much appreciated..

Not two minutes ago I posted this in another thread!

Originally Posted by BadCompany

Sorry I was referring to the back tire. I still have a little chicken stripes on the front, but nothing on the back. So I'm thinking if I get a bigger back wheel and get lower, I can find the max of the front wheel.

Same applies to the back. There was a really big thread on this about 8 days ago woth lots of technical background. See if you can find it. It basically comes down to this ...

The tyre and the rim size are matched. If you put a wider tyre on the existing rim then it has to wrap around in a smaller circle to fit the narrow rim. This can make your tip-in feel really weird (either too fast or too slow) and if you really get it wrong you end up with less tyre contact patch rather than more.

Then there's the relation of the rear tyre's width to the front. Mis-matched and they don't have the same roll into the corner which means you could end up with bad understeer or oversteer, I can't remember which. The geometry of a bike is hugely complex with castor, trail, dip and all sorts of other parameters all designed by those big computers to work together - I wouldn't change a thing.

Sorry about your bin tsmj, I hope it wasn't the tyres but I do hear so many times (esp young guys) wanting to change up to big fat tyres. All I can say is that if a fat tyre is the best for that bike, Kawasaki would have made it like that. Shitty that someone else's big penis envy has cost you a bin

**Stromble** · 13th March 2008, 21:19

Originally Posted by Grub

Not two minutes ago I posted this in another thread!

Same applies to the back. There was a really big thread on this about 8 days ago woth lots of technical background. See if you can find it. It basically comes down to this ...

The tyre and the rim size are matched. If you put a wider tyre on the existing rim then it has to wrap around in a smaller circle to fit the narrow rim. This can make your tip-in feel really weird (either too fast or too slow) and if you really get it wrong you end up with less tyre contact patch rather than more.

Then there's the relation of the rear tyre's width to the front. Mis-matched and they don't have the same roll into the corner which means you could end up with bad understeer or oversteer, I can't remember which. The geometry of a bike is hugely complex with castor, trail, dip and all sorts of other parameters all designed by those big computers to work together - I wouldn't change a thing.

Sorry about your bin tsmj, I hope it wasn't the tyres but I do hear so many times (esp young guys) wanting to change up to big fat tyres. All I can say is that if a fat tyre is the best for that bike, Kawasaki would have made it like that. Shitty that someone else's big penis envy has cost you a bin

Cheers Grub!

Weird, I was just reading that other thread...spooky... Absolutely, I am not happy with the wider Shinko on the back. If they were the correct size, I would keep em. Already received my Bridgestone replacements today, so they will be going on over the weekend. I have Battleaxs on my previous V-strom and there were no chicken strips left on those, so will be happier once these are on..

**Grub** · 13th March 2008, 21:21

Originally Posted by Kittyhawk

...

spend a day with me and I'll get you riding so you wont arse off....

Well that sort of statement would make me run a mile!

**Kittyhawk** · 13th March 2008, 21:24

Originally Posted by Grub

Well that sort of statement would make me run a mile!

Come here sunshine!! - wanna play?

**Gaz** · 13th March 2008, 21:25

Originally Posted by tsmj

Thanks Gaz,

I used countersteer all the time, and even consciously once used it in emergency when a car pulled straight out in from of me from the left, I even suprised my self what the bike could do (and I have a V-strom at the time, bloody heavy!)

Only this time I didnt, weird, I really did get transfixed on where I was going to ditch the bike....

Though appreciate the advice, will be definately practising my cornering and counter steering abilities once im back up..

whenever I find I've gone in toooo hot, I quietly say push - this prompts me to CS. Screaming F$%K its OVER - has the opposite effect.

**westie** · 13th March 2008, 21:28

Wow all the crap bout "those bad tyres" and not one word bout how he chopped off the gas moments before he started sliding. Yes thats right rule number one to twelve on cornering. Even if it is just 500 rpm its gotta stay on or you're going out to the edge of the grippy stuff.

Bummer you crashed dude. Read some motorcycle technique books (twist of the wrist) and do some track days. Soo much fun and learning.
Take care

**Stromble** · 13th March 2008, 21:30

Originally Posted by westie

Wow all the crap bout "those bad tyres" and not one word bout how he chopped off the gas moments before he started sliding. Yes thats right rule number one to twelve on cornering. Even if it is just 500 rpm its gotta stay on or you're going out to the edge of the grippy stuff.

Bummer you crashed dude. Read some motorcycle technique books (twist of the wrist) and do some track days. Soo much fun and learning.
Take care

Nice... and another valid perspective.! thanks.. this forum is great.!