Oh I'm sorry dear, I didn't see you!

[discotex]

A cop-look-alike fluoro vest should cut down the "Sorry dear I didn't see you" occurances. Most won't wear one because it ain't cool but all the safety research says bright vests do help cagers see us.

Careful mate, I got vilified on here for suggesting the very same thing. According to some people, black leathers contrast with the road better than hi-vis vests

I take it you both think cars should be painted fluro orange as well to make them more visible?

If you want to make yourself visible drive a 4x4. As has been said a million times (and ignored by yourselves) the most obvious reason for the stats is the fact that nana riders wear orange - NOT that it's more visible.

This is specific to cars but should give you and idea of how impossible it is to say one colour is safer than another - http://www.aaafoundation.org/pdf/CarColorAndSafety.pdf

Guess you won't bother to read it and consider it though.. It's pretty clear you've closed your mind to any reasoned argument to the contrary.


As for the quesiton of how to avoid being rear ended. Right hand wheel track means you are in the line of sight of the driver. If you are turning left don't sit right over to the left of the lane or you're asking for trouble. It'll make a bigger difference than the colour of your gear. And don't forget cars rear-end cars too so sometimes there is nothing you could have done better.

[Katman]

As for the quesiton of how to avoid being rear ended. Right hand wheel track means you are in the line of sight of the driver. If you are turning left don't sit right over to the left of the lane or you're asking for trouble. It'll make a bigger difference than the colour of your gear. And don't forget cars rear-end cars too so sometimes there is nothing you could have done better.

Being rear ended at an intersection is one of the very few accident scenarios that I've struggled to think of any real means of avoidance. Careful positioning at the intersection may well help but, on the other hand, I'm always wary of stopping to far to the right of the lane if turning right at a T junction in case someone chooses to cut the corner.

[Okey Dokey]

Glad that you are okay, sorry about your bike, though! I hope that you don't get left with the cost of repairs. Probably good to let your insurance deal with it, as others have said.

Seems like every day there is another post on kb about some dozy cager hitting a motorbike!

[CookMySock]

Claim on you own insurance and let them claim from the driver. Otherwise you will pay for the repairs, send her the bill, and receive zilch.

This is excellent advice. I have had exactly the same thing happen to me. Go to your insurance company first before you touch a thing.

DB

[RT527]

Bummer do ....although I would have Said about 3 000$ for the light, ...it did after all hold sentimental value ...Didnt it?.

[swbarnett]

Glad you're OK.

To keep myself a bit safer at intersections I park myself in the right wheel track so that I'm in direct line of sight in front of the driver. Also, I keep the bike in gear (even when at traffic lights) with one eye forward and one on the mirror. That way I just might be able to get out of the way of anyone approaching from behind. I haven't had to do this myself but have heard tales of this working overseas.

Seems like every day there is another post on kb about some dozy cager hitting a motorbike!

With about 10,000 members and the state of driving in NZ this is not that surprising (although not very nice to hear).

[Soul.Trader]

This is specific to cars but should give you and idea of how impossible it is to say one colour is safer than another - http://www.aaafoundation.org/pdf/CarColorAndSafety.pdf

I wonder if you've actually read that paper, because it generally supports my point of view that (surprise surprise) bright colours are more visible than dark colours. Although the paper itself is only a tiny meta-analysis, it provides references to two correlation studies. Being correlation studies, neither of these were perfect studies, but they seem to support my point of view. For whatever reason, the author of the paper has drawn a contrary conclusion to those of the studies, but I'm more willing to rely on the conclusion of a controlled study than an analysis.

Study 1:
the authors found that light-colored (i.e. white or yellow) cars were slightly less likely to be “passively involved” in crashes. The effect was observed to be strongest during daylight on open roads under less-than-ideal weather conditions. Black cars had the worst record for passive involvement in crashes.

Study 2:
The authors found that silver cars were about half as likely to be involved in crashes resulting in serious injury as white cars, with brown, black, and green cars being roughly twice as likely as white cars to be involved in serious injury crashes.

In any case, no matter what conclusions are drawn in these imperfect studies, the paper clearly illustrates that bright colours are substantially more visible - something a 5 year old could have told me. The big question comes down to whether this causes a reduction in accident rates - to be honest, it doesn't really matter. If you can be more visible, why not? If there's any chance it can reduce your likelihood of being in an accident, why not?

[swbarnett]

If there's any chance it can reduce your likelihood of being in an accident, why not?

Because we all have our own limits. Driving a car would make me more visible but I'm not about to do that in preference to a bike.

I am happy with my visibility. I never expect anyone to see me. I'd be happy on a matt black bike with matt black gear on a dark night in the rain.

[Soul.Trader]

I agree, and I'm a big advocate of personal choice. But someone who tries to seriously suggest they're no less visible in black leather than a hi-vis vest is fooling themselves more than they're fooling me.

[swbarnett]

I agree, and I'm a big advocate of personal choice. But someone who tries to seriously suggest they're no less visible in black leather than a hi-vis vest is fooling themselves more than they're fooling me.

From what I can gather from other threads both camps are right when taken in context.

Yes, colour is easier to see than black under normal circumstances but in the split second where the decision is made to proceed or not the cager's brain doesn't have the time to process colour. What's important is shape and movement (or at least that's what I'm led to believe).

[discotex]

I agree, and I'm a big advocate of personal choice. But someone who tries to seriously suggest they're no less visible in black leather than a hi-vis vest is fooling themselves more than they're fooling me.

You misunderstand... The issue isn't visibility. The issue is whether that actually helps avoid a crash when riding a motorcycle.

I'll go back and answer your other post in a minute.

From what I can gather from other threads both camps are right when taken in context.

Yes, colour is easier to see than black under normal circumstances but in the split second where the decision is made to proceed or not the cager's brain doesn't have the time to process colour. What's important is shape and movement (or at least that's what I'm led to believe).

Exactly... Contrast, movement and size is far more important than colour when deciding if a vehicle is a threat. Motorcycles have lost hope long before choice of colour comes into the equation.

[Soul.Trader]

You are corerct sw - however, the brain only recognises shapes and movements it can quickly identify, which means you need contrast - which is why lime green is a popular choice for high visibility - because it contrasts with most things on the road. Facts are facts, and if people want to ignore those facts and ride on fully blkac gear, then that's absolutely fine as far as I'm concerned. But they will no doubt be the first to bleat on about how other motorists dont see them etc.

[Jantar]

It isn't just a matter of which colour is more visible, its also what is it that the brain picks up as being a threat. Bright colours in random shapes help to disguise the person wearing them, and even though they are easy to spot when that's what you're looking for, they are great camoflage against someone who is just doing a basic scan.

A single solid colour will be picked up quicker than a montage of colours, and black is percieved by the brain to be a possible threat and will often cause a reaction before you even know what you are reacting to.

At night or in poor visibility black becomes a camoflage colour, and reflective stripes will stand out more. So it isn't really which colour? its which colour for the circumstances.

[Japtwin]

Yeah the cage was probably scanning the road she was about to enter for traffic and relying on peripherals to warn her of vehicles ahead, oops bike not big enough to register. Jees that would have scared the crap outta me, bad enough the careless bastards in front/sides doing dumb stuff but getting bombed from behind is ridiculous.
Safe riding and glad u enjoyed the rest of the trip

[swbarnett]

...so I took of and waited for her on the other side.

Might have been a good idea to ascertain the level of damage before taking off.