Are there any tree huggers out there?

[geoffm]

I don't know much about what else there is to choose from - but at least the greens doesn't seem to engage in the shitflinging and still manage to have a significant influence upon what has happened in political circles (this is from watching the process for just over a year). If I was to vote tomorrow I'd throw my vote at the greens before even considering Labour or National - but I'd have to check what other parties are there though.

The only reason the Greens (Watermelons) have any influence is becuase Auntie Helen needs their votes - a classic case of the tale wagging the dog. The same applies to the Bauble party and the other no hopers in parliment.
The Greens are great at getting others to pay, but aren't so keen on stumping up themselves. Why do they fly in planes - surely they should be taking the train between Wellington and Auckland? Are they to important? Ditto cars, especially the ministerial limos.

[klingon]

...Klingon - You say that the Green charter has the following equal principles:

Ecological Wisdom
Social Responsibility
Appropriate Decision-making (What does that mean?)
Non-Violence

Appropriate decision making means that a decision should be made at a level/by the people appropriate to that situation. So decisions about an individual's welfare should be made by the individual but decisions about a society's welfare should be made by the society.

Some Green Parties use short-hand to talk about the four principles (something like: Conservation, Welfare, Democracy, Peace) but of course you can argue that non-violence is not peace, appropriate decision making is a lot bigger than democracy, and conservation is not the only thing needed for the survival of an ecological system.

So why don't they call themselves the "Non-violent, ecologically wise, socially responsible appropriate decision makers"? They call themselves the Green party because they want everyone to see them as conservationists rather than socialist pacifists.

Ummm...because "Non-violent, ecologically wise, socially responsible appropriate decision makers" is harder to say than Green...

And because the precursor to the Green Party in New Zealand was the Values Party - possibly a better name, but it doesn't have the international recognition of 'Green'. Green may only mean environmentalism to you, but internationally it means much more. Take a look at this Wikipedia article for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_party

...Why not turn social responsibility into personal responsibility? I agree with helping out those that are less able to fend for themselves but receiving that assistance should require some responsibility from those receiving the assistance. As long as we pay people to sit on their arses and do nothing, they will continue to sit on their arses and do nothing.

Oh yes. Lots of big discussions to be had around this one. Hard to know where to start really - so I won't!

So all in all I see that none of you who are followers of the "Green" mantra are prepared to pay extra for your fuel in the way of carbon tax. That is honest, pragmatic but hypocritical as you should all be using the bus. Is climate change here? - yes but it has been several times in our past history. Is it anthropogenic? I am yet to be convinced.

I am prepared to pay more for my fuel. I stated that clearly earlier on. Anything that brings the price of fuel in line with its true cost is fine by me. That's one of the reasons I choose to ride a motorbike instead of driving a car everywhere.

By the way, I do use the bus or train when it makes sense to do so, and I walk or bike when it makes sense to do that. I also drive a car when I need to. I don't have a problem with using the best form of transport to do the job at the time. If that makes me a weirdo in some people's eyes, it really doesn't bother me!