qualified lawyer please, can I beat this ticket?

**zooter** · 9th December 2004, 05:57

I'm sure there is meant to be some tolerance to the speed signs as to the proximity to the sign with allowance for acceleration/deceleration. What is it? I got pinged at 87 in a 60 zone maybe 200m before the 80 sign.
Also, do judges have any discretion with speeding tickets? I read of a court case once where a guilty defendant was discharged without conviction because the mandatory minimum punishment had other consequences which made the penalty too harsh to fit the crime. I don't recall what the crime was. In my case I think I can put up a sound argument along similar lines.
Please don't post on this thread unless it's the good legal oil. If you want to sound off start another thread. Cheers, Greg

**James Deuce** · 9th December 2004, 06:08

Go and check the LTSA site. Or read the road code.

According to the LTSA speed signs are compulsory, so you must being doing the speed indicated on the sign, at the sign.

Discretion is up to the individual cop. Speed cameras have no discretion.

**Sniper** · 9th December 2004, 06:13

Generally, the rule of thumb that the cops follow as well, is that at the start of the sign signals the start of the new speed zone. Unfortunatly if you were pinged doing 87 in a 60 zone 200m away from the sign, there is not a hell of a lot you can do. Fighting it might just result in a bigger loss of money (Court costs) or if you are very very lucky you might get off it, but thats only if you can prove negligence on the cops part. I would recommend you try doing that.

Good luck

**Quasievil** · 9th December 2004, 06:15

Well my cop mate tells me you can be pinged 200m outside or inside a speed sign ?? for what its worth

**Sniper** · 9th December 2004, 06:19

Originally Posted by Quasievil

Well my cop mate tells me you can be pinged 200m outside or inside a speed sign ?? for what its worth

Good point, but once again Quasi, its always at the Cops discretion.

**AMPS** · 9th December 2004, 07:02

It was reported that the Police were supposed to exercise discretion within 250 metres of a speed limit change. However 27 k's over wasn't discrete, I think you're toast.
Lou

**Drunken Monkey** · 9th December 2004, 08:04

I know of a barrister who has got a few friends/aquaintances off some tickets/charges that you'd have thought were an open and shut case for the Police, including somehow managing to keep a driver's license despite being pinged at 167 in a 100 zone while on 80 demerits.
Barrister's do come at a premium. Expect to pay several hundred, if not thousands of dollars.
I have PM'd his contact details. If anyone else is in the sh!t over traffic offenses, this guy is supposedely 'the man'. I won't post the details, but anyone on this site should feel free to ask me for the details.

**marty** · 9th December 2004, 08:33

87 in a 60? what way were you heading? if towards the 80k sign, then you're hash browns.....the other way? you may have some comeback, but i wouldn't be holding my breath. and were you stopped 200m short, or pinged 200m short? if stopped there, you were pinged probably 400m from the sign.

**marty** · 9th December 2004, 08:34

and advice is all well and good, but if you want to defend it, it's gonna cost you at least $2000 up front. i know eba lawyers who charge $3000 up front, win or lose, then another $2000 if you win.

**scumdog** · 9th December 2004, 08:47

Originally Posted by AMPS

It was reported that the Police were supposed to exercise discretion within 250 metres of a speed limit change. However 27 k's over wasn't discrete, I think you're toast.
Lou

I agree, it sounds like you were winding up in anticipation of the 80 km zone, (either that or you normally ride at that speed in a 60 area!) in which case you ARE toast!

Cops have the ability to give you a ticket right up to when you go past the sign but generally don't, you were 200 metres from the sign so if I were you I would write it off to experience - and keep a sharper eye out for cops too!!

**Jonty** · 9th December 2004, 08:57

Land Transport law is not my speciality, however, I would suggest as a first port of call dropping a line to your local community law center. The CLC are very good at dealing with this type of issue and they will steer you in the right direction. They will be able to advise you on the strength of your case based on the particulars, as it is very difficult in a forum like this to provide specific information without have seen and heard all of the facts.

For what it is worth, however, there no legislative basis that provides for the 200m discretion that some posters have been mentioning. This discretion, on the face of it, would appear to rest with the individual officer concerned. Unfortunatley these offences are what are known as absolute liability offences and are extremely difficult to "defend".

I would imagine the advice from the law center will be to write to the police explaining why you had failed to comply with the compulsory sign and provide some reasonable explaination why this happened.

Also, rememeber the cost of the ticket will undoubtabley be less than the cost of one of us!! so anything you can do for yourself in the mean time (i.e writing letters) will be your best option.

Good luck

**scroter** · 9th December 2004, 13:52

i had a lawyer friend write me a letter for a ticket i received for 13km over in a passing lane. got a letter back and it said NO, and didnt bother giving a reason why even though i gave plenty of reasons why i should have been left alone.
In short dont like your chances of even being listened to.

**Hitcher** · 9th December 2004, 14:16

Originally Posted by zooter

I'm sure there is meant to be some tolerance to the speed signs as to the proximity to the sign with allowance for acceleration/deceleration. What is it? I got pinged at 87 in a 60 zone maybe 200m before the 80 sign.
Also, do judges have any discretion with speeding tickets? I read of a court case once where a guilty defendant was discharged without conviction because the mandatory minimum punishment had other consequences which made the penalty too harsh to fit the crime. I don't recall what the crime was. In my case I think I can put up a sound argument along similar lines.
Please don't post on this thread unless it's the good legal oil. If you want to sound off start another thread. Cheers, Greg

So what's your defence? How fast do you believe you were going or do you have an excuse for being 27kmh over the legal limit? You would have been 7kmh over the limit at the 80kmh mark anyway. Were you accelerating or decelerating at the time? How long before the speed limit mark do you believe "discretion" should apply -- 50m, 100m, 200m, 500m, 1km? Why do you think the sign is where it is? Should it be moved? Pretend I'm a judge and plead your case.

**scumdog** · 9th December 2004, 14:28

Originally Posted by Hitcher

So what's your defence? How fast do you believe you were going or do you have an excuse for being 27kmh over the legal limit? You would have been 7kmh over the limit at the 80kmh mark anyway. Were you accelerating or decelerating at the time? How long before the speed limit mark do you believe "discretion" should apply -- 50m, 100m, 200m, 500m, 1km? Why do you think the sign is where it is? Should it be moved? Pretend I'm a judge and plead your case.

Hey, you sound far to realistic to be on KB site!! You have pointed out all the flaws in his argument why he should be 'let off'.

Just to add more - How much over the speed limit do you think you should be allowed to go before it's ticket time? and how far from the sign do you think would be reasonable? and do you think you should be able to 'pax' a speeding ticket? :confused2

**spudchucka** · 9th December 2004, 15:44

Originally Posted by AMPS

It was reported that the Police were supposed to exercise discretion within 250 metres of a speed limit change. However 27 k's over wasn't discrete, I think you're toast.
Lou

The 250 metre thing is basically a gentlemans agreement that is not policy nor law. Judges / JP's seem to take it into account when folks are entering a slower speed zone but not the other way around.

By the way Zooter, I'd really like to hear how you intend to defend yourself.