New learner rules- will they reduce crashes?

**sil3nt** · 31st March 2008, 09:24

Is a list available? Im guessing its going to be similar if not the same to the australian one here http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...iceriders.html

Also when are these changes coming in and what does it mean for those who are riding 250s that might be in the exclusion list?

I just read on a website this is part of a strategy for 2010! Bit far off to be getting excited over.

**YellowDog** · 31st March 2008, 09:40

I past my test in the UK in 1986 and it was really easy. I just rode around the block a couple of times and an on-foot examiner jumped out for me to do an Emergency stop. It seemed easier to pass than to fail.

Anyway, I rode on and off over the years and then in 2004, I decided to buy a 650cc bike. Due to me not ever sending off my pass certificate, I found that as I no longer had a valid licence and had to do another test. I did a 3 day Direct Access course and it was very tough. The observations and manoeuvres you need to demonstrate to pass were tough and very strict. It was very challenging and my point is that anyone like me, who passed in the 1980s, will have no idea of the skills required and are not likely to have picked up the safety essentials. I didn’t and I considered myself to be confident and pretty experienced.

So I am definitely in favour of strict ‘life saving’ motorcycle standards. I am just not sure that the new laws will do anything to improve standards and safety.

**Badjelly** · 31st March 2008, 09:47

As usual, I voted before looking at the poll results and now I see only 2 people agree with me! And I'm beginning to waver

I think the rules (all of them, not just the change to LAMS) will result in a small, beneficial effect on nooby crash rates, but probably too small to actually detect with statistical analyses. How's that for a testable prediction?

**BevanPT** · 31st March 2008, 09:50

Given the statistics show 70+% of accidents are not the motorcyclists fault, why isn't Harry "incompetent" Dunyhoven fiddling with car licence restrictions!!

Improving driver/rider education/training is the only solution that will make a difference.

**Blue Babe** · 31st March 2008, 09:55

Originally Posted by BevanPT

Given the statistics show 70+% of accidents are not the motorcyclists fault, why isn't Harry "incompetent" Dunyhoven fiddling with car licence restrictions!!

Improving driver/rider education/training is the only solution that will make a difference.

Personally, I think the driving age of 15yrs is way too young for some of the kids here in NZ. They have No road sense what so ever. My daughter has just got her restricted today & I'm worrying myself sick about it all, as she will be driving down to Auckland on Thursday. I wasn't half as bad with my son. In the Uk the driving age was/is 17yrs old. I don't particularly think the Uk's system is better, as I like the idea the kids have to be restricted for a time, as this means they do actually do some learning.

**scumdog** · 31st March 2008, 09:58

Originally Posted by YellowDog

I did a 3 day Direct Access course and it was very tough. The observations and manoeuvres you need to demonstrate to pass were tough and very strict. It was very challenging and my point is that anyone like me, who passed in the 1980s, will have no idea of the skills required and are not likely to have picked up the safety essentials. I didn’t and I considered myself to be confident and pretty experienced.

So I am definitely in favour of strict ‘life saving’ motorcycle standards. I am just not sure that the new laws will do anything to improve standards and safety.

So how much did the Direct Access course cost??

I believe a lot would want a rider education course to be part of the licence system - up until they find out the $$$ it costs.

Would y'all be happy to end up paying $350 for the course, testing and licence??

**Badjelly** · 31st March 2008, 10:07

Originally Posted by BevanPT

Given the statistics show 70+% of accidents are not the motorcyclists fault, why isn't Harry "incompetent" Dunyhoven fiddling with car licence restrictions!!

Two points:

As stated elsewhere on this thread [sorry, not on this thread, but in another one], the figure of 70% is an underestimate.
Even in accidents which are "someone else's fault", a safer rider can almost always do something to minimise or avoid injuries

**Edbear** · 31st March 2008, 10:09

Originally Posted by BevanPT

Given the statistics show 70+% of accidents are not the motorcyclists fault, why isn't Harry "incompetent" Dunyhoven fiddling with car licence restrictions!!

Improving driver/rider education/training is the only solution that will make a difference.

It's proven that TV advertising does work, so more ads re: using your eyes when driving would be a start, but you're right, driver training is key, however having said that, it is a lot to do with immigrants who arne't used to NZ conditions and incompetents who think they can do anything else but concentrate on the road while behind trhe wheel!

Originally Posted by scumdog

So how much did the Direct Access course cost??

I believe a lot would want a rider education course to be part of the licence system - up until they find out the $$$ it costs.

Would y'all be happy to end up paying $350 for the course, testing and licence??

You make a good point about cost. A bigger problem I think, though, is the fact that laws only work for the law-abiding. Notice the number of unreg. unWoF'd, unsafe/illegal cars with unlicenced/disqualified, drunk/drugged, uninsured drivers represented in accident statistics? There are a number of KB'rs who freely admit to blatantly ignoring the law re: licencing...

**James Deuce** · 31st March 2008, 10:10

Originally Posted by scumdog

Would y'all be happy to end up paying $350 for the course, testing and licence??

Excellent idea, but I'd like to see it cost $3500 so that we can exclude those poor people.

**Blue Babe** · 31st March 2008, 10:16

Originally Posted by Jim2

Excellent idea, but I'd like to see it cost $3500 so that we can exclude those poor people.

But What about those poor people who are actually sensible & want to learn.

**James Deuce** · 31st March 2008, 10:19

Why, let them eat Brioche of course.

**Mikkel** · 31st March 2008, 10:24

Well, licenses in NZ are ridiculously cheap compared to places where there is a proper learning and testing system in place.

I can't see how increasing the quality and reducing the quantity of road-users would negatively impact upon anything important.

I agree that 15 is too young! Many places you can not get a car or motorcycle license until you turn 18 - you can get a moped/scooter license when you turn 15.

Originally Posted by Blue Babe

But What about those poor people who are actually sensible & want to learn.

BURN THEM!

**Coyote** · 31st March 2008, 10:27

I have the highest crash record of anyone I know relative to time spent on a bike (prove me wrong if you want to get your jollies over being more of a dumbarse). Thing is, none of my incidents were ever reported. That alone makes the statistics wrong if only by a few percent and making youth even more 'under represented'.

The youth go home bruised with one foot dragging on the ground and proceed to fix their cheap, non-full cover bike with zip-ties. The older folks call up the insurance company to get the scratches buffed out and a new helmet and incident is recorded by LTNZ.

And now I've got my full, I continue to crash (accidents, not me being an idiot). I've got full cover too but I know the cost of fixing versus no more no claims bonus just isn't worth it. Think I'll be bumping down to third party now it's depreciated below the 2k mark.

Another note: Compulsory training is good. However I can see it just being another way the AA swindle us e.g. Defensive Driving Course price increasing every few months as they try to find the limit.

My VFR isn't going to become as a 'learners bike' is it? It'll loose all it's street cred! And it's not suitable... cough