New learner rules- will they reduce crashes?

**Swoop** · 31st March 2008, 10:32

Originally Posted by scumdog

Would y'all be happy to end up paying $350 for the course, testing and licence??

Quite honestly I think that is a bargain.
A decent training course as well as the licence. Compare that to the cost of driving lessons that are paid for by the hour and you still have the test on top of that.
How long would the course run for? 2-3 days, a week?

**sinfull** · 31st March 2008, 10:35

Originally Posted by scumdog

Would y'all be happy to end up paying $350 for the course, testing and licence??

After having just gone through the system with my partner doing her learners , i think you'll find you dont get much change out of $350 these days anyway, with the BHS, test costs,etc !~ A a full on riding skills, safety course should be brought in I recon screw the cost !
Question would be how would ya go about it with an older person, who's had their licence for umteen years but hasnt ridden and all of a sudden has no dependants, mortgage etc, goes out buys him/herself a machine that will be the envy of all his/her mates. Only to blow it in the first week or so and out ride their ability
I recon thats where the over 30 fatallity stats would be evolving from ! Though i think the changes are great, i dont believe the stats will change much.

**terbang** · 31st March 2008, 10:38

Originally Posted by scumdog

So how much did the Direct Access course cost??

I believe a lot would want a rider education course to be part of the licence system - up until they find out the $$$ it costs.

Would y'all be happy to end up paying $350 for the course, testing and licence??

A private pilots license, for recreation only, costs close to fifteen grand to do the prescribed training. Not a bad way to weed out the dick heads who seem to be hell bent on killing themselves in whatever the drive/ride.

**Coyote** · 31st March 2008, 10:39

Originally Posted by Edbear

Ummm! Why...?

Edited it a second before you asked.

On the VFR I was braking for an intersection at a mellow pace since it was wet. As I was going over the STOP painted on the ground, the front end gave way. Though I've learnt to try keep upright on paint when I can (can't help it sometimes, they pour paint all over the show), I don't think of it as a noob mistake and more just misfortune. Unlike on my old learners bike where my incidents were me going too fast on a road I know well and know I shouldn't be going so fast.

**YellowDog** · 31st March 2008, 10:41

Originally Posted by scumdog

So how much did the Direct Access course cost??

I believe a lot would want a rider education course to be part of the licence system - up until they find out the $$$ it costs.

Would y'all be happy to end up paying $350 for the course, testing and licence??

I think it was 5 days and not 3 like I said. It cost about $1200, to be able to pass a test for a bike over 600cc and covered basic, intermediate and a full test at the end. They also encourage you to do an advanced course after riding for 6 months. IMO - money well spent, but then I was already an experienced rider (or so I thought).

**Edbear** · 31st March 2008, 10:41

Originally Posted by Coyote

Edited it a second before you asked.

On the VFR I was braking for an intersection at a mellow pace since it was wet. As I was going over the STOP painted on the ground, the front end gave way. Though I've learnt to try keep upright on paint when I can (can't help it sometimes, they pour paint all over the show), I don't think of it as a noob mistake and more just misfortune. Unlike on my old learners bike where my incidents were me going too fast on a road I know well and know I shouldn't be going so fast.

Fairynuff!! Been there, done that! Sucks!

**scumdog** · 31st March 2008, 10:41

Originally Posted by Swoop

Quite honestly I think that is a bargain.
A decent training course as well as the licence. Compare that to the cost of driving lessons that are paid for by the hour and you still have the test on top of that.
How long would the course run for? 2-3 days, a week?

The $350 was a 'plucked-out-of-the-air' figure to emphasise there would be a cost invloved - just for those who think they will get the course as part of a $100 package - incliding licence.

**Usarka** · 31st March 2008, 10:57

Meh i'm all for learner riders/drivers having to get a job and save some money before being able to afford getting a bike/car. We're always going on about personal responsibility etc.....

mind a one off $350 will be peanuts for most under 19's compared to insurance costs once compulsory 3rd party is introduced.

**vifferman** · 31st March 2008, 11:03

Originally Posted by Coyote

On the VFR I was braking for an intersection at a mellow pace since it was wet. As I was going over the STOP painted on the ground, the front end gave way. I don't think of it as a noob mistake and more just misfortune.

Well, that is a noob mistake. A more experienced rider would've made sure they'd lined up their tyres so as to be between the letters painted on the road, and in the wet would avoid riding over or braking on painted road markings as much as possible. Even though the road markings are supposed to be non-slip paint, in practice they're actually either ornery paint, or so coated with road spooge that the paint type doesn't matter: they're slippery.

**Horse** · 31st March 2008, 11:08

Originally Posted by sinfull

Question would be how would ya go about it with an older person, who's had their licence for umteen years but hasnt ridden and all of a sudden has no dependants, mortgage etc, goes out buys him/herself a machine that will be the envy of all his/her mates. Only to blow it in the first week or so and out ride their ability
I recon thats where the over 30 fatallity stats would be evolving from !

If that's an accurate representation of the problem (and I have no idea if it is), then wouldn't the solution be some kind of compentency-based system with a programme of regular rider evaluations. eg a rider test every 2 years or summat to retain your license? I wonder how popular that would be?

**sinfull** · 31st March 2008, 11:25

Originally Posted by Horse

I wonder how popular that would be?

Eeeeeeek !!!

Scary part is, i have every licence availible, but havent read a road code for 25 yrs ! A riding test wouldn't worry me, but a theory would !
Truth be known, i was one of said older fella's who had had a break from riding for 14 yrs and had only ridden cruisers, so the triple was a whole new experience (feel i'm still learning after near a yr and 40 k !! Bring on taupo track day)

**Coyote** · 31st March 2008, 11:28

Originally Posted by vifferman

Well, that is a noob mistake. A more experienced rider would've made sure they'd lined up their tyres so as to be between the letters painted on the road, and in the wet would avoid riding over or braking on painted road markings as much as possible. Even though the road markings are supposed to be non-slip paint, in practice they're actually either ornery paint, or so coated with road spooge that the paint type doesn't matter: they're slippery.

So I'm still a noob even though the AA has given me a full licence? Interesting...

I have learnt to keep more upright and take the line with less paint, but since this incident I've realised just how much paint is out there and how some of it is unavoidable. Even on corners e.g. left turns at motorway lights. If you slow down for them you'll quickly get a 4x4 up your arse honking too.

**Ocean1** · 31st March 2008, 11:54

Originally Posted by Usarka

Meh i'm all for learner riders/drivers having to get a job and save some money before being able to afford getting a bike/car. We're always going on about personal responsibility etc.....

mind a one off $350 will be peanuts for most under 19's compared to insurance costs once compulsory 3rd party is introduced.

Yup, far too easy. Might have been appropriate when you elderly gents got yer ticket

, what with maybe 10% of the traffic and a serious piece of machinery having about 40hp...

Fact is changing environment and vehicle density means the actual riding/driving standards required to negotiate our roads safely have skyrocketed in the last couple of decades, and the regulatory framework for licencing is nowhere near comprehensive enough.

If a higher standard of competence were required to get a licence and a modicum of compliance to the rules to keep it there'd be much less carnage. Problem is... the nippers need to get to school/work too, public transport is a touchy subject for her majesty’s fiscal managers, what's the voting age again?

**vifferman** · 31st March 2008, 12:08

Originally Posted by Coyote

So I'm still a noob even though the AA has given me a full licence?

Yup. It's good to have the attitude that there's a lot of stuff still to learn, and a lot of practice required.

**Romeo** · 31st March 2008, 12:28

How come scooters aren't included in any of the new legislation!

I was digging through the facts this morning, and it tucked away on one of the factsheets was a fact that whilst sub-125's are under represented in fatalities, they're grossly over represented in "minor" injuries. All of these "minor" injuries get totalled into the governments "casualties of motorcycling" tally. Which they then use to help target a different category of road users.

It's ridiculously easy to get a scooter, and ridiculously easy to get injured on one - so why is there no fuss about scooters and why are all the problems that arise from scootards being unfairly heaped upon motorcyclists!

THEY MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN SUB-50cc's and MOTORCYCLES, whilst they are two completely different categories of road user!

A totally unrelated yet werid fact:
30% of learner/restricted riders killed were riding bikes which were above the 250cc limit. So you can imagine that there's a subgroup of atleast 30% of learner/restricted riders who don't/won't care about the new laws at all.