Speeding, ouch..................

[spudchucka]

I dont deny what your saying, its a sad fact. But both vifferman and Mike L raised some valid points. Its the attitude that is proberly the biggest problem.
I dont see the speed is the issue, its the person behind the wheel. Im sorry but I dont see targeting the person who is doing 100-115kmh is going to fix the problem. You have to target the attitude and develop BETTER driving skills. Instead of trying to lower the the average speed. Why dont we attempt to lift the quality of driving. I imagine that would result in a far better driving record for the country.

They are targeting an attitude. The attitude that I can drive at whatever speed I like or the attitude that I can drive at 115 because in my mind it is safe and I don't care that the speed limit is there for a reason because I know better and I'm such a good driver and its a good straight road and its not raining at the moment and theres not that much traffic on the road and my car / bike is so cool and my girlfriend gets wet when we go really fast and I'm going to save a whole ten minutes if I just go another 10 kph faster and shit while my girl friend was rubbing my dick I didn't realise I was now going 125kph and oh crap theres cow shit all over the road and fuck theres a cow on the road now and holly shit I didn't know cows made such a mess when you hit them at 120 and oh my fucking god where the fuck is my girlfriends head.............

Yes I've had a bad day!

[scumdog]

I dont deny what your saying, its a sad fact. But both vifferman and Mike L raised some valid points. Its the attitude that is proberly the biggest problem.
I dont see the speed is the issue, its the person behind the wheel. Im sorry but I dont see targeting the person who is doing 100-115kmh is going to fix the problem. You have to target the attitude and develop BETTER driving skills. Instead of trying to lower the the average speed. Why dont we attempt to lift the quality of driving. I imagine that would result in a far better driving record for the country.

I hear where you are coming from but you have to realise that some rider/drivers are out of their depth at 75kph and you 'expert riders' that think 120kph is too slow are at the other end of the spectrum and unfortunately 100kph is deemed the best 'safest' average speed for the 'average' rider/driver, sorry but that's how it is. :spudwhat:

[MikeL]

Go ask a six year old who's mum has just been killed by someone speeding for their quantitative opinion on how much harm that person caused. Or for that matter the mother of the young dude who wipe himself out on a power pole this morning. Its all relative to your personal experiences. Yours are obviously very different to mine.

You seem determined to misunderstand my point, and to cloud the issue with appeals to emotion. (Of course there is unacceptable suffering, but it is not limited to road accidents. How many young people committed suicide this year, leaving devastated parents behind? And how much money and effort is put into suicide prevention compared to bringing down the average road speed?) I have never denied that excessive speed can lead to tragedy. I am raising the question of whether the legal consequences of exceeding the speed limit are appropriate to the crime (and I use the term advisedly, in view of the currrent LTSA slogan). I have no problem with severe penalties for manifestly dangerous driving, even when no actual harm results, and I will even at a pinch accept that an arbitrary speed grossly in excess of the limit in the order of the figure that was mentioned in the first post in this thread can be taken as prima facie evidence of dangerous driving or riding. What I find somewhat disturbing is firstly the imposition of a harsh penalty (and in particular automatic demerit points) on the basis of a theoretical statistical risk rather than actual harm caused, and secondly the suspicion that targetting speed per se has become the main focus of road safety because it is an easy enforcement option.

Let me suggest an alternative approach:
Increase the penalties massively for those convicted of causing injury or death through their behaviour on the roads. Lifetime bans, large fines (some of the money to go to victims or their families) and jail sentences would all be appropriate. Upgrade driver education and licence requirements. Make it mandatory to do advanced training/refresher courses at appropriate intervals. Have suitable advertising campaigns that make people think about the consequences of their actions without insulting their intelligence by claiming that they are potential murderers. And bring back some flexibility in penalties for exceeding the speed limit to take into account factors such as the driver's experience, accident record, etc., so as to penalize the particular (not statistical/average) risk to the driver and other road users.

Totally impractical? Perhaps. It would put a heavy burden on the courts, for instance. But when pragmatism is put ahead of considerations of justice and fairness, you shouldn't be surprised that people whinge...

[rodgerd]

Overhauled?!?
So it's not true that there are people being licensed to drive who are barely capable of keeping the car in a straight line? And who can't parallel park?
C'mon, man! That's like saying you overhauled your bike because you'd washed the road spooj off it!

Two words: fucking. bullshit.

I can only assume you've never bothered looking at the difference between licensing pre and post graduated licenses. If you can't see the difference, well, you should hand in your license until you can get some glasses.

According to the LTSA stats, 18-25 driver fatalities have trended down per capita. The relative rise has been in wrinklies and middle aged drivers.

And fairly ineffective, if you ask me.

What were the number of deaths on the road in 1980? 1990? 2000? As a proportion of the population and mileage?

I guess facts are less interesting than whinging about how you should be allowed to speed and the road toll is everyone's fault but dickheads like petethepom.

[scumdog]

MikeL, good points BUT it's too late if you inflict penalties AFTER the fatl/serious injury crash has occurred, best if the threatened penalty can PREVENT such a catastrophe IMHO.

[rodgerd]

I dont deny what your saying, its a sad fact. But both vifferman and Mike L raised some valid points. Its the attitude that is proberly the biggest problem.

Attitudes like, "race tracks are boring, I prefer the road", and "I don't care what the law says, I'll do what I want"? Attitudes like "double yellow lines are bullshit, I'll pass where I like"?

[guzzi_nz]

Attitudes like, "race tracks are boring, I prefer the road", and "I don't care what the law says, I'll do what I want"? Attitudes like "double yellow lines are bullshit, I'll pass where I like"?

dont cross over yellow line when passing

[inlinefour]

Honda, a bit of the time I wonder what planet you are from but on this occasion you are SO right, it is a fine line between "oops" and "fuck, get the undertaker"
After 20+ years in the freezing works I think the results of a bad (is there a 'good'?) crash is just like the gut-floor at the works, only there is no crying/wailing rellies. , try it sometime.

Sometimes I also wonder what planet I'm on, must be the remernants from my teens? But too many times I post things on the www and many people take it another way than what was intended. Thus I have decided to reduce my posting, tonight being my first time of the such. I've obviously made an enemy with Marty, which is pretty sad and tends to put me off the whole KB theme. I allways experienced arses on the road that would not ride with me on my Honda, and this site must have em here apparently. I've now been accused of being another person who is placing crappy messages.
I like your comparison made. I worked in a local butcher shop while I was doing my studies. The difference is that at the block you don't have to explain to the piece of meat (rider) what is happening and it does not become agitated, or its family.

[stevedee]

Time to close the thread maybe? ain't worth falling out with mates over surely. You are responsible for your actions good or bad, ....pass the peanutts.

[avgas]

Why cant the money got to WWF or local schools or something?

[scumdog]

As a note of interest: I went through the Kawarau Gorge in a VR-X, I set the cruise-control at 100kph, MOST of the time I could get around the various bends o.k., now and then I was forced to 'hit the picks' , had I crashed as a result of NOT hitting the picks would speed be considered a factor? :spudwave:

[marty]

Sometimes I also wonder what planet I'm on, must be the remernants from my teens? But too many times I post things on the www and many people take it another way than what was intended. Thus I have decided to reduce my posting, tonight being my first time of the such. I've obviously made an enemy with Marty, which is pretty sad and tends to put me off the whole KB theme. I allways experienced arses on the road that would not ride with me on my Honda, and this site must have em here apparently. I've now been accused of being another person who is placing crappy messages.
I like your comparison made. I worked in a local butcher shop while I was doing my studies. The difference is that at the block you don't have to explain to the piece of meat (rider) what is happening and it does not become agitated, or its family.

fuckin hell Honda - you started it, now you're going all wimpy. and the other message from 'johnny rotten'? if it's not you, then someone is sure taking the piss good and proper, and if it is someone else, then ask yourself why they felt the need to take on your alter ego persona.

[marty]

just in case anyone missed it.....

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=1864

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=1865


you'll note the u numbers follow each other, both were created on 12th November 2004, and honda (used to) have johnny rotten quoted at the bottom of his signature - he now just has oi oi oi. come on Honda. nice try, but you'll have to do better than that. and no, i don't hate you, i just think that you're a troll - you can't even put your name to dickhead posts like this one >>>>

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/se...earchid=183777

[2_SL0]

As a note of interest: I went through the Kawarau Gorge in a VR-X, I set the cruise-control at 100kph, MOST of the time I could get around the various bends o.k., now and then I was forced to 'hit the picks' , had I crashed as a result of NOT hitting the picks would speed be considered a factor? :spudwave:

Yes it would, but would you get a ticket? Whether I have fallen into your trap I dunno. But you have just stated the whole reason as to why the system is not right. Because what you have stated is a attutitude/driving ability problem. Correct those issues and your (not meaning you) belief I can go round this corner would realise I need to brake the vehicle wont go round the corner, Im going to look like a dork. I dont see speed as the issue in your example, its a drivers ability to drive correctly to the conditions.
That reminds of the guy in the USA who has a camper van, puts it on cruise control and goes and makes a coffee, lmao.

[Deano]

I got pinged recently for overtaking on double yellow's.

I had over 100 metres visibility, nothing coming the other way, and completed the manouvre quickly and safely. WTF was the problem ? Bikes have the ability to overtake much quicker than a car.

Just my luck the guy I overtook was an off duty detective.

This was on Centennial Highway (read "killer" highway) so perhaps the cop freaked out.
Dickhead.