Biker down on NW this morning (9th April)

**-df-** · 10th April 2008, 11:52

Originally Posted by jrandom

Yeah, what Katman said.

I was trying to make the point that the exact speed involved has very little to do with it.

I and dozens of others on this forum ride safely at '70-80' through traffic that's doing '40-50' every day.

So reactions have nothing to do with it? you know...covering more distance in a given time...less time for reactions...car changes lanes or something else...no time to react...getting thru yet?

If not all good...fingers crossed one less rider I have to be carefull riding on the road with...

**jrandom** · 10th April 2008, 11:57

Originally Posted by -df-

So reactions have nothing to do with it? you know...covering more distance in a given time...less time for reactions...car changes lanes or something else...no time to react...getting thru yet?

We discussed this in another thread just yesterday.

Oddly enough, cars can take you out more quickly and with less warning when traffic is moving at slower speeds.

In the end, though, it's all about anticipating what's happening on the road in front of you and maintaining full situational awareness.

One way or the other, the rider who went down this morning failed to do that.

I reckon that if you noticed him coming past and thought "what a plonker", he would have been filtering badly. A good lanesplitter just slides through the traffic with a minimum of fuss, and almost never has to use sudden throttle or brake inputs.

It's not so much about reaction times as it is about the physical limitations of how quickly a bike can stop or swerve. It's very easy to outride one's braking distance in traffic without actually going too much faster than the surrounding vehicles. Reacting quickly won't save you when it can't result in anything but a stoppy into the back of a truck.

It's quite possible to manage one's position on the road so that one can get through traffic quickly while always maintaining safe braking and swerving options.

**Edbear** · 10th April 2008, 12:01

Originally Posted by jrandom

...I and dozens of others on this forum ride safely at '70-80' through traffic that's doing '40-50' every day.

No doubt you try to ride safely most of the time, but perhaps this chap thought he was splitting "safely" too? Most riders don't ride to have an accident, they ride to enjoy riding and live to ride another day, few are actually reckless, though obviously there are those on the road.

Personally, and I haven't ridden with you or even met you in person, but I feel the speed differential you are comfortable with, leaves little or no room for error. I just don't trust drivers to see what is coming up behind them, or to check carefully before changing lanes. It may be that "most" do, but there are far too many who don't, and it only takes one to ruin your whole day...

**jrandom** · 10th April 2008, 12:06

Originally Posted by Edbear

No doubt you try to ride safely most of the time, but perhaps this chap thought he was splitting "safely" too? Most riders don't ride to have an accident, they ride to enjoy riding and live to ride another day, few are actually reckless, though obviously there are those on the road.

I dunno, eh. 'Back in the day', I did some unsafe filtering, and I knew it at the time, too. I was, in fact, being reckless.

And I've seen it being done by others and known that the way they were going about it wasn't safe.

I'm more cautious and hyper-alert now than I've ever been, and I moderate my filtering behaviour far more than I used to.

Originally Posted by Edbear

Personally, and I haven't ridden with you or even met you in person, but I feel the speed differential you are comfortable with, leaves little or no room for error.

Well, I wouldn't filter on your bike the way I do on mine. It's all about maintaining a safe available handling envelope to deal with any possible behaviour by other vehicles on the road.

**Morcs** · 10th April 2008, 12:11

Originally Posted by -df-

So reactions have nothing to do with it? you know...covering more distance in a given time...less time for reactions...car changes lanes or something else...no time to react...getting thru yet?

If not all good...fingers crossed one less rider I have to be carefull riding on the road with...

depends on the rider.

I guarantee my reactions are better at 150, than yours are at 80.

many factors come into play - perception, anticipation and awareness are some of them, and they are different.

How you ride before you are forced into a reaction is critical - if you are good, when it comes to making a swift reaction, you already know your surroundings and your relation to them.

**jrandom** · 10th April 2008, 12:12

Originally Posted by Morcs

How you ride before you are forced into a reaction is critical - if you are good, when it comes to making a swift reaction, you already know your surroundings and your relation to them.

Situational Awareness (tm).

Morcs hits the nail on the head.

**Edbear** · 10th April 2008, 12:19

Originally Posted by jrandom

I dunno, eh. 'Back in the day', I did some unsafe filtering, and I knew it at the time, too. I was, in fact, being reckless.

And I've seen it being done by others and known that the way they were going about it wasn't safe.

I'm more cautious and hyper-alert now than I've ever been, and I moderate my filtering behaviour far more than I used to.

Well, I wouldn't filter on your bike the way I do on mine. It's all about maintaining a safe available handling envelope to deal with any possible behaviour by other vehicles on the road.

When I was a teenager, I know I did ride at times without due regard, though I always had that "little voice" that tempered my riding. It meant I wasn't as "good" as some of my mates, but I'm still alive. Even so, I know that at times it was more good luck than good management that I didn't become a statistic.

I agree that a C50T is not a good filtering bike and I never try to keep up with the sports bikes that cruise past me through traffic... (much to my wife's disgust! She says, "If they can do it, why can't you?" "You ride like a Nanna!", "Here, let me drive!"

) She'll learn...

I agree, it's about defensive riding, the "what if?" attitude and making sure as best you can, that you can dodge an incident.

**marty** · 10th April 2008, 12:30

what's the chances it's this guy/girl?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=71182

**Mully** · 10th April 2008, 12:40

Originally Posted by marty

what's the chances it's this guy/girl?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=71182

Unlikely, this was further up the motorway. Near St Lukes according to the thread. The person who fell off was just before Waterview.

Unless, of course, this person was doing laps of the motorway waiting to be taken out/fall off.

**-df-** · 10th April 2008, 16:35

Originally Posted by jrandom

I reckon that if you noticed him coming past and thought "what a plonker", he would have been filtering badly. A good lanesplitter just slides through the traffic with a minimum of fuss, and almost never has to use sudden throttle or brake inputs.

He seemed to be filtering very smoothly to be honest, it was more the speed he went past that got my attention.

oh, and kiwifruit...good to see you are sticking up for your wife to be, can't you do it in public?

**-df-** · 10th April 2008, 16:36

Originally Posted by Morcs

depends on the rider.

I guarantee my reactions are better at 150, than yours are at 80.

Didn't realise we had already met...

**jrandom** · 10th April 2008, 16:39

Originally Posted by -df-

oh, and kiwifruit...good to see you are sticking up for your wife to be, can't you do it in public?

Trust me, you wouldn't like it if he did.

**Maha** · 10th April 2008, 16:48

Originally Posted by jrandom

No, not really.

Yeah, what Katman said.

I was trying to make the point that the exact speed involved has very little to do with it.

I and dozens of others on this forum ride safely at '70-80' through traffic that's doing '40-50' every day.

My god! you guys are getting on like a house on fire aint ya!....