Disbelief at what I heard

[ital916]

Okay, so it was the SMC stand yesterday at the womansfest day in the quad at uni. A good cause as we were trying to sign up new female riders and educate a few people with open ears to the realities of motorcycling. What did happen though is a lot of people who I thought were quite open in their views talking shit that I thought was straight up crap.

A lady walked up interested in getting a scooter. Said scooter would be used for a five to ten minute commute from her living accomodation to university. I recommended that she should budget in 1000-1500 for a scooter and roughly 600 dollars for a jacket, gloves, helmet and draggin jeans *along with words of caution that sturdy boots are a good idea, not including high heels which is not a good idea*. All fine until a colleague stated never...NEVER buy an open face helmet, if you ever want to have a face. This is where opinions and self control parted way, and the point where laughter turned into annoyance and debate. Motorcycling is a very personal hobby, full of individual choices and opinions. Now I hold nothing against the club *now I say club as I got a pretty unanimous picture that all there hated open face helmets bar me* but to hear a group of educated and what I used to believe sensible motorcyclists talking shit about products many of them have never even tried. Yes if you come off with an open face helmet you MAY land on your chin, or your nose or get catapulted eyeballs first into a fence post but that is a risk many riders who wear open face helmets take into account. When I am selling motorcycle gear, I INFORM said riders of the possiblities of injuries that may occur, but once that has been said, if they decide to wear an open face helmet, THAT IS THEIR CHOICE.

I don't mind having an opinion on products but that is my opinion and it is not my place to slander products. A fine example was said club noting that open face helemts are shit. On the contrary the quality and comfort of say davida open face helemts are extrodinary and if I could I would have one in an heartbeat. Many motorcyclists I have met have been riding with open face helmets their entire lives and never had a single injury/complaint. I believe in educating the public to the injuries that can be sustained but for fucks sake, motorcycling is a dangerous pursuit in it's nature, if you don't like it take up boating or reading books inside a plastic safety bubble.

Another point is the hypocrisy that I felt was emanating quite heavily. Oh no don't ride with open face helemts thats bad, but feel free to go ahead and ride without gloves, with normal jeans on and running shoes. If your going to preach safety, stick behind it and preach properly or don't. I'm a safety nut when It comes to motorycling. I understand that it is a dangerous hobby and as such wear full gear, everywhere I go be it near or far. This is from knowing the consequences of what can happen. To tell people coming to the stand for information about the dangers of riding a two wheeled vehicle, then saying such and such products are crap they won't protect you, then saying riding in normal clothes is fine is unbelievable.

Trying to discuss/debate the issue at the time just eventuated in dushy bashing and a lot of stop stirring up shit. I'm sorry if my opinion didn't gel with that of the clubs but from the sounds of it a lot of club members need to pull their heads out of their asses. I admit I poke fun a lot in good jest but when serious issues arise I deal with it sensibly, a trait I can't see in many members. I don't mean to offend, but if that is how the club wishes to portray itself to the public, then I think the club will just a get a bad rep.

I will also say this for the last time, yes I have come off a few times. For the final record, I have come off once at a speed of 40km/h, once at 20km/h in the wet on diesel. Three times learning to ride on gravel, two stationary drop. I was wearing full gear and have walked away unharmed, unlike some members. I have learnt from my mistakes and fully acknowledge the mistakes made and don't excuse them. Please stop referring to my accidents as if I am a hooligan. I am willing to use them as examples of what not to do, but as katman says only I was to blame, I live, and I have learnt. I am a cautious safe rider. Fini.

[riffer]

I dunno mate. My father was always an advocate of the open face helmet until the day he went headfirst over the top of a VW on The Terrace, and ended up with 12 stitches to his chin.

He bought a Bell helmet the next week (this was the 70s).

[DMNTD:Me]

Personally I refuse to sell open face helmets but do direct the customer to the parts department if the do choose to buy one.

[bungbung]

It's on the safety continuum isn't it?

ATGATT with full face helmets and back protectors at one extreme, and stiletto heels and itsy-bitsy, teeny-tiny etc. bikinis at the other.

29.95 open face helmets from the chinese supermarket
vs. trendy momo helmets

If you've ever landed on your face, you'll have a different opinion from those who think a helmet spoils 'the look'.

["D" FZ1]

I personally would never wear a open face helmet. I have seen the results of a lady that went down the road on her face. Ground off her nose, lips and chin. Not a good look.

[vifferman]

While I too would never wear an open-faced helmet, my first three helmets were not fullface ones.
I have hit the road a few times over the past 35 years, and I've hit my head on the ground a total of one (1!) times. That includes writing off two bikes in crashes with cars, running over a bicycle, a pedestrian, one lowside, three other drops due to traction issues, and numerous off-road crashes.
However (but!) the one time I did hit my head which was at a near standstill, the helmet was barely marked and I had mild concussion for three days. Would an open-faced helmet have made a difference? In this case, no, but that's probably a matter of luck more'n anything else.
I did crash a kid's tricycle earlier in my on-road career (got the speed wobbles down a steep hill, from the pedals flailing around at 20 trillion rpm), and faceplanted the road. Minor injuries, but they included a cut chin.

It's all the luck of the draw: if you land face-first, you need full face protection. And as someone else said on KB recently, unfortunately, you can't necessarily choose how you will land when you crash.

[klyong82]

I was at the womansfest too but I dont remember hearing any debate going on cos I was with Squiggles and Shingo looking at a doogy TL website till the mac laptop blew up!! pheww!!

My opinion on open face helmets? Seen a few horrible after crashes on the face from these helmets. Would never wear one again. Have even seen open face helmet with visors that shattered into sharp pieces piercing into riders face...scary

As for gloves I think that is necessary and like most scooters riders are just commuters I dont think they will purchase the full gear but I do advice them to wear thick padded clothing and at least jeans and normal boots at the least....

[Ixion]

I wear full face these days, but I covered many hundreds of thousands of miles in open face lids (and even no lid!).

If it came to a choice, I'd rather have an open face and gloves than a full face and no gloves.

There's open face and open face , too. The HD beanie type are another matter to the 'jet' style. The beanie doesn't protect the back of the head much.You can also get those open face helmets with a big screen, which sort of half converts them into a full face.

I've also seen people (including cops) riding with the flip front helmets in the 'up' postion, which effectively converts them into open face.

I think some people invest helmets with semi magical properties.

[Phurrball]

D, I get where you're coming from, but I personally cringe when I see young, attractive women on scooters with an open face helmet. I forsee the potential, and quite likely, 'ouch' for chins and teeth in an off.

See attached graphic for the reason why - there is empirical data to back up the fact that open-faced helmets are a risky proposition...

[bomma]

imho i also think open face helmets are crap....my aunty came off doing about 40kps and face planted........me and my dad were first on the scene....she knocked her front teeth out and cut her nose and chin area up pretty bad.....few stitches, reconstruction surgery and false teeth were required....she now only rides with a full face helmet and doesnt let anybody ride with open face helmets

[Squiggles]

We're not at the stands to sell products, although we sometimes promote our sponsors gear.

Giving advice is like giving an opinion, its what you believe.

I personally dont care if someone chooses to wear no gear, thats their choice. I'd recommend they wear some, for the obvious reasons, but when it comes down to it, its the individuals choice. And its only sad if they dont know the risks.

I suspect whoever pointed out the cons of open face helmets was merely informing the person that they are not always as effective (with perhaps just a bit of overkill). A wise move, its now their choice to take that on, or take the risk knowing what has been said (or justfuckinggoogleit if its questionable advice). Just as i know what gravel rash is, i ride to uni in jeans. If someone told me explicitly that jeans were perfect, and i believed them, then injured myself, isnt that the same as someone saying an open face is perfect, not knowing any better, then loosing a chin as the result of it?

To say open face ones are a fail is a wee bit extreme, but they arent the same when it comes to the chin area.

A question to you though, did you suggest they come on down to motomail to get hooked up?

[vifferman]

See attached graphic...

Willyalookitdat - the one time I hit my head (helmet), it happened to be the most unlikely place to do so: 0.2% of impacts.

[Unit:Me]

Nothwithstanding the particular item you are talking about, I agree when it comes to sales and opinions. If a prospective purchaser asks my personal opinion, I will give it, and back that up with reason, then offer alternatives that I consider better.
Personally not a fan of open face helmets, even though I have never tried them. However, for the type and level of riding I do one would be inappropriate. I guess its a matter of being consistent with the whole subject too eg "yes mam you will be fine with a mini skirt on but I do find a back protector essential", kinda message wouldnt make sense.

[Marmoot]

Yer faggots the bane of destruction of the pillars of common sense.....really disgusts me...

Take a look at this List A of hypothetical chronological situations:
- acknowledgement: Be careful, scooters/mopeds are motorcycle and there are risks
- advice: Budget $xxx for jackets, gloves, helmets, etc
- warning: Open face helmets are dangerous
- imposition: Don't buy open face helmets
- prohibition: Those who are not wearing full face helmets should be banned
- outrageous: motorcycling is too dangerous and should be banned

Or this List B of hypothetical chronological situations:
- acknowledgement: there are health risk in increased sugar intake
- advice: it is advisable to control your sugar intake by staying away from certain food
- warning: sweet candies and chocolate bars carry high percentage of sugar
- imposition: We should control sweet food sales
- prohibition: selling sweet food around schools should not be allowed
- outrageous: we should make laws to tell people what they can and cannot eat for their own sakes.

Similar process...I hope none of youse ever have powers to make changes in the society because I for sure still want to decide for my own fate.
God gave me free will. Who are you to take it away?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yer faggots the bane of destruction of the pillars of common sense.....really disgusts me...

Take a look at this List A of hypothetical chronological situations:
- acknowledgement: Be careful, scooters/mopeds are motorcycle and there are risks
- advice: Budget $xxx for jackets, gloves, helmets, etc
- warning: Open face helmets are dangerous
- imposition: Don't buy open face helmets
- prohibition: Those who are not wearing full face helmets should be banned
- outrageous: motorcycling is too dangerous and should be banned

Or this List B of hypothetical chronological situations:
- acknowledgement: there are health risk in increased sugar intake
- advice: it is advisable to control your sugar intake by staying away from certain food
- warning: sweet candies and chocolate bars carry high percentage of sugar
- imposition: We should control sweet food sales
- prohibition: selling sweet food around schools should not be allowed
- outrageous: we should make laws to tell people what they can and cannot eat for their own sakes.

Similar process...I hope none of youse ever have powers to make changes in the society because I for sure still want to decide for my own fate.
God gave me free will. Who are you to take it away?

I am Uncle Helen, your once elected never unelected Fuhrer for life. I expect you to salute me.

Also, bite me, I'm eating a Peanut Slab.


Right now.

Damn its goooooood