Insurance - second-hand parts?

[sefer]

Ok, since I know there are a couple of people involved with the insurance biz, and heaps of others who have had to deal with their own claims on here, maybe you guys can give me a bit of information.

If you want to skip (most) of the text wall ignore the first three paragraphs

My cage was stolen about a month ago and recovered a few days later. Since I had my bike and other transport I left it to the cops and insurance company to sort out (got the cops to tow it from where it was found, insurance company moved it from there), figuring it was the right thing to do to help in catching the pricks who took it. As a result I never saw it apart from a quick look when I dropped a key off at the towies place, where as far as I could tell it seemed Ok, a few new scratches, stereo gone, but no major damage. The assesser called a few days later to say the plug leads were gone too, and he'd get the car off to a shop for the usual stolen car check-up. He asked if i had any preference when it went, but I didn't really care and said so (a mistake prehaps, but I didn't really care where it went).

Anyway, a couple of weeks later I'm still waiting (with transport, so not really worried) and decide to call to find out what's up. The insurance guy didn't really seem to care or know so I called the garage directly. "still waiting for parts" was the answer. Apparently they'd taken the coil pack and the leads with it and the "starter" (still no idea what that actually was, not the actual starter motor I would assume). It'd be ready tommorrow anyway, so cool.

Next day I get the call "sorry, still not running. We'll get a sparky out to look." So a few days later I get the next call "Ok, the computers gone too, we're waiting for the parts." Anyway, after a bit more stuffing around with the stereo and more waiting for parts it was ready for pick up today.

Start reading here if you skipped all the above

Ater checking out what I could of what has been replaced (I didn't get a summary or anything, so I can only check the things I know were replaced) I find it is all second hand, most likely from the local nissan wrecker based on the writing on it all. Even the door speakers that were replaced too are second-hand (and the grills are crappy looking). I can understand and accept the steering cowl being secondhand, as there is no chance they could get it new (thou the replacement is from a different model), but since the two main parts I know were replaced are both pretty important (coil pack and ECU computer) it seems a bit dodgy using used parts.

Now clearly the parts in the car weren't new (thou the coil pack was only a couple of years old), but if I had done the work myself I would have used a new coil pack and rebuilt ECU at the very least.

So, what is the general opinion? Should I moan about it? .As I said, good body panels/plastics are fine second-hand IMO, but electrical parts?

I've already got about five other things that I've got to talk to them about (none of the scratches were fixed, burn marks/holes on my seats, it's now idling too fast and shudding slightly at certain speeds), so adding this isn't a big deal, I just want an opinion on if I'm being reasonable in asking for new parts?

While I'm almost ranting on the subject, how about this: Before it was stolen it had no problems I knew of, now it is apparently leaking water at the pump (I haven't checked this myself yet). Garage guys said "wear and tear, not related" (though was also under the impression it hadn't been driven by the thieves at all) . Do I ask for it fixed, or accept that it probably would have happened to me around the same time anyway?

[imdying]

First port of call is your policy... what does it say? Doesn't seem unreasonable though... if then entire car was stolen, it wouldn't be replaced with a new one... and the parts stolen, they weren't new either.

[Motu]

Like kind,like quality - the parts on your car weren't new,so the parts fitted are the same age as what came off.Some insurance companies supply the parts,the repairer has no say in what parts are fitted...they only fit them.Highly unlikely the water pump could fail in transit or sitting on the workshop floor - that's your problem,get it fixed before you cook the motor and have more bills.

[Matt_TG]

Hi there

This sort of thing is always a point of contention. If the car is more than a few years old there's no obligation to replace parts with brand new if they are available secondhand (example being panels as you say - it's often more economical and quicker to pop a secondhand guard on a car and re-spray it rather than a new one or bogging the old one up) electrical bits can be a grey area.

You could not reasonably have known exactly how long your current parts would last and they will say that it's the same with the secondhand parts, so you are in the same position you were before the theft, it's up to you as to whether you agree with that principal. You seem realistic in your expectations though.

My advice would be to ask for a copy of the assessor's sheet and the invoices from the panelbeater/ auto electrician etc, so you know exactly what was replaced, and how much they cost. Insurer's repaired it on your behalf so you shouldn't experience any resistance. You could say that you will accept the repair on the basis that those parts will perform for a reasonable time, and you have recourse to go back to them if any part fails or doesn't perform. Your claim will be well documented (insurer, assessor and panelbeater records) so they can re-visit the repair at a later date if needed.

Then present them with your list of concerns and stress that things are happening that weren't before (shudders and leaks). Is there anything there that would normally be picked up at the last WOF and wasn't?

Finally, ask if they will accept an independent check of the repaired vehicle, at their cost. This could be tough to get them to pay for it, but if you say something like you'll pay for it and if there's problems they reimburse you, could work.

Let us know how you get on

[sefer]

Cool, thanks for the comments so far guys.

I don't put any of the 'blame' on the repairer, it'll be the insurer who has specified the second-hand parts, hence why I haven't even mentioned it. I say I probably made a mistake in not specifying a repairer myself simply because the they likely sent it to the cheapest place around (perhaps), and ultimately the the communication from there wasn't great. On reflection I know of a couple of places that would have communicated better, telling me exactly what was happening, and that the parts being replaced were not new.

No, the parts were not new on my car (excepting the coil pack, which was near new in relative terms), BUT they were a known quantity, they worked, and being that I've owned the car for quite sometime I know they have not been subjected to any adverse treatment. Compared to parts that have clearly come from wrecked cars of unknown origins, and probably have not been tested in anyway (the ECU would need specialist gear for a start). No warranty has been expressly given (though assumed). I'll defiantly be asking for new speakers however, there is little excuse to replace those with secondhand ones, especially when they are clearly of poor quality/repair.

Highly unlikely the water pump could fail in transit or sitting on the workshop floor

I wasn't suggesting that at all. I'm saying that I have no idea how the car may have been screwed with between being stolen and recovered. Or it could have been driven around at 8000 RPM the whole time.

The fact that the car seems to have been taken expressly for parts is also a concern. It seems to me it is unlikely they towed it to where it was dumped, so they either striped the parts there (possible, but unlikely as it was a fairly popular public park/reserve), or they stripped what they wanted at another location and made it drivable enough to dump.

As far as what the policy says, I've no idea at this stage, looks like I've lost it sometime between moves. Frankly I don't want to ask for a copy since I know a lot of things have changed in their new policies (such as excess charges for non alarmed vehicles). I guess I'm going to have to and assume they won't attempt to change it to the newer ones.

[Motu]

I used to do mechanical assessments for my local panelbeaters on stolen and recovered's,usually money for jam as we flat rated them at an hour,but some took longer.It's easy to pick up on if they have been thrashed,but most damage was just burn outs and chassis damage from curbs etc.To damage a water pump it would have to be run dry and cook the seal....and the engine would die before then.Water pump damage often happens when a vehicle sits for a long time - seal sticks to block,then rips up on start.Some times I would have to do an assessment on post damage (like a water pump or trans fault) where the customer bleats that it was perfect before the accident.Practically no come backs on that one - assessors are not mechanics,but they are not mechanically stupid.

[ynot slow]

We were in a similar predicament,except our car had drivers window smashed and radar detector flogged,the alarm stopped them taking stereo.We rang the insurance that day,they advised us to go to local auto glass panel beater to suss out,being a Friday it would be Monday when window ready to fit.

I asked if the window could be sourced from a local wrecker,the insurance said ok to secure the car being the weekend arriving.Window found with same tint from New Plymouth wrecker and got a call to drop the car off after 12pm and will be ready around 3pm,phone rang 35min later at 12.40pm,all fixed.

Insurance company did say as we were happy to use second hand if it was badly scratched or not suitable we could have a new window,as our policy was free glass breakage,just let them know on Monday.Was happy to use the second hand one,so told the insurance company,seeing we have saved you a few hundred$$$ using secondhand and have the car secured over weekend,how about lowering the excess for radar detector,as this and a couple of other items were flogged,they said yep happy to do that,and also not add it to our no-claims which I didn't think applied to break ins,but did.

Since then we had the front windscreen go on our Accord in late Jan 07,then in early Feb07 the windscreen in our Celica got a crack in it and needed to be replaced on a Wed,then next Mon the rear hatch was shattered after a truck carrying an overloaded load of rocks lost a few due to hitting roadworks at a speed well above 30km,(he managed to shatter a few screens we found out),amazing when you see rocks hit the road bouncing everywhere,and see it just miss the front,only to hit the hatchback,scares the crap out of ya,due to lack of rear hatch glass in stock we were asked to take a secondhand one which was fine,afterall when you have 3 breakages within 2 weeks.

[barty5]

I own an auto motive repair shop and there is very little chance the insurance CO would pay for new parts unless the vehicle is near new we get it all the time. An ecu would be $1000.00 plus as for speakers we would allways supply these as new factory grills we get the best we can. As for the question re the condition of the vehicle(motor ) one of the first things they should have done was a compression test any vehicle we find that is low or has a large in difference normally gets writtern off or pending on value replacement motor as the insurance COs wont take the risk of the engine dieing latter.
As for the engine report ie: compression go from there.

[sefer]

Thanks for that info Motu, I don't use the car much so you may have hit on what's up there. I'll query it anyway with them, but won't be suprised if it's a negative. It also makes me feel a bit better about having to do it myself if I know it was likely to happen anyway.

I guess in the end one point this raises for me is why bother claiming at all and end up losing out on the excess and no-claims? Sure in this instance once I get the scratches done it'll probably take the total amount over what I've had to pay out, but for the (same) parts replaced alone I probably could have brought them for less than the excess (in fact I'll find out tomorrow out of interest). This is the first time I've had to claim for anything bar a no fault accident, so I thought the 'right' thing to do was notify the IC straight away. If there is a next time I'll sure as hell be waiting to check out if it's even worth doing.

I'll call them tomorrow and get the assessors sheet, and the repair info if I can. There's stuff that has to be done anyway, so I guess there's no harm in asking for the additional info. Hopefully they won't peg me as a trouble case just for asking!

[sefer]

Well no real progress today. I phoned claims and got the 'talk over you' brush-off.

Basically the guy said I couldn't have the assessors sheet as "there's no problem yet" and if I want to do anything about it I have to go back to the repairer and tell him what's been missed (most of which is the result of the insurance company not asking me to check the car after recovery, and the belief of the repairer it hadn't been driven), as well as my issues with the replacement parts. Then they'd have to tell the IC. He also seemed to think I should have got a complete run down including what's been done, cost, and where the parts were sourced from. I've only got a call to say this was being done and a receipt for my excess.

A few things I have discovered though.

The policy wording refers to "best repairer practice" - No repairer I've been to has been willing to used second hand parts (except for the couple I've known personally).

Apparently the reason they use second hand parts is to save the environment (it's in one of their corporate fluff booklets)

[vagrant]

When my car got broken into, the assessor rang me and said they would replace the window as a freebie under the policy, but that the quoted repairs/replacements for the other stuff was not much over my excess.
He gave me the choice of continuing the claim, or fixing it myself. I went with plan B using the quote sheet from the repairers, got them to do the fixup, paid cash, and after them getting some bits cheaper, and giving me a cash discount, it came to less that the excess. And I got to keep the no claims bonus..
Sometimes you just have to get a little involved. (it helps to have a good bas@#$d from the insurance company on your side too)

[sefer]

That's pretty much what I had expected to happen really, that they got an estimate and actually let me know what was needed and talked to me about it before they went ahead. Probably wouldn't have made much difference since they seemed to only pick up on the missing bits as they replaced other bits and found out something was still not right, but it would have at least given me an idea.