Shocking workmanship

[Ixion]

Such controversy !

I always knew that no good would come of abandoning the good old girder.

The excellent products of Messrs Webb and Brampton never generated such vituperation.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Indeed. I've been fondling my Ohlins shock (far to pretty to sully by bolting to a dirty motorbike) and drinking an impertinent little Valpolicello.

[Robert Taylor]

Are you willing to provide tools, workshop manuals and back-up for every Kiwi attempting DIY?...if not you offer rings a little hollow Robert. It would also seem that in being kind enough to offer this service many sets of tools, manuals etc would be needed-you would in effect become a philanthropist helping the poor and needy!
The core of the issue is money, we the motorcycling public cannot afford nor justify 10-30% of the motorcycles cost on shocks and requisite servicing, justifiably we have no choice but to seek other methods, as a business man I am sure you can appreciate this.
As for the complexity issue-a shock is a container containing oil and not much more. 'Fluid loss through an orifice' and 'pressure created as a resistance to flow' pretty much cover the technical side, couple that with attention to detail and your done.

I think you need to read the second sentence, we would quite correctly make a judgement call and NO that is not playing God, its being vigilant to the job being done properly. Nothing wrong in that, I was bought up to do things properly.
Yes I am well aware of cost and that is why in our business we have several levels of cost to suit a lot of varying pockets. Actually anyone who knows me will testify that I am actually very helpful and mindful / up front about costs.
''Other methods'' become unacceptable when the job is butchered and we see that so often, also units on the road that present danger to the user and others in the ''firing line''
It surprises me that you ''paint'' shock absorbers as being so simple, have you actually seen inside say an Ohlins TT44 or inside a set of their gas charged Superbike forks? Try downloading a TTX40 manual and the valving reference programme at some stage the see if you are prepared to repeat your parting statement?

[Robert Taylor]

Such controversy !

I always knew that no good would come of abandoning the good old girder.

The excellent products of Messrs Webb and Brampton never generated such vituperation.

YES, its amazing that when you dare to mention the need for quality control you have people almost condoning much of the shoddy work that is happening out there. Have our standards and mindsets really deterorated that much? Should Helen Clark be shouldering a lot of the blame for this?

[SixPackBack]

YES, its amazing that when you dare to mention the need for quality control you have people almost condoning much of the shoddy work that is happening out there. Have our standards and mindsets really deterorated that much? Should Helen Clark be shouldering a lot of the blame for this?

Your original post complains about:

• The need for proper tooling-good we get that, tooling can be manufactured for the most part.
• The correct use of flushing medium and the need to fully disassemble-cool, we now know to take the shocks apart flush with kerosene and finally a suitable light hydrocarbon.
• Cheap seals are sub-optimal-we understand buying top quality seals will optimise the fork rebuild giving lower friction and lower life.

Now we all accept you are the top Ohlins man in N.Z, hell perhaps the known universe, but lets get some perspective you and your agency are not the only person/group capable of stripping and rebuilding a device that has been around for probably at least 60 years. However much you mystify the humble shock it remains a container full of oil, a handful of parts and not much more! once stripped and rebuilt a couple of times the mystery disappears. It 'aint brain surgery.


And dude seriously 'Helen Clark'??

[Morcs]

Every manufacturer does just that though mate, it's to ensure follow up business. Suzuki, Triumph, Harley, all the same. And that's just to name the manufacturers I've dealt with. Can't blame Ohlins for that.



Agreed, it's nuts and bolts. But you'd rather your Lamborghini serviced by the chap trained at the factory rather than the blokes at Mag and Turbo who obviously know their performance car shit. Surely?



I don't understand this bit sorry. What the hell you tryin to say? As with anything, you like something, you get told a price, you buy it or you don't. How's that opaque?



Yeah but if you "name and shame" on here, you're then bombarded with people wanting to know why the hell you didn't take the issue up with those concerned. Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't.

Fair enough.

Often you make informed and funny replies, here you've just made a cock of yourself.

If it were so easy to work on suspension for mechanics, (who have mostly ALL been inside forks for one reason or another), why do they not do it more readily?

It aint hard to pull a fork apart, but doing it properly to change fluid and seals without making the mistakes RT outlines is key to the continued good performance of them.


Resorting to smart arse sarcastic digs to try getting others on your band wagon is pretty sad man. And I'm pretty sure, Robert is well busy enough at the moment without druming up business this way.

To sum up, ignore list it is for your pompus arse, at the very least it'll halve the number of new posts whenever I log in.

Stop brown nosing to mr Taylor. there seems too much of it on KB.

Mr Random has very well put a great post together. I 100% agree with him. If my bike doesnt have Ohlins, it isnt shit.
Half the people who spend $$$ on ohlins will get outridden by ya average joe on a 5k bike anyway.

[White trash]

Often you make informed and funny replies, here you've just made a cock of yourself.

If it were so easy to work on suspension for mechanics, (who have mostly ALL been inside forks for one reason or another), why do they not do it more readily?

It aint hard to pull a fork apart, but doing it properly to change fluid and seals without making the mistakes RT outlines is key to the continued good performance of them.


Resorting to smart arse sarcastic digs to try getting others on your band wagon is pretty sad man. And I'm pretty sure, Robert is well busy enough at the moment without druming up business this way.

To sum up, ignore list it is for your pompus arse, at the very least it'll halve the number of new posts whenever I log in.

Possibly a little short sighted there mate.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion sonny, the art of debating your side opf an argument is present yourself clearly and concisely, not simply call your opponent a wanker

[imdying]

It surprises me that you ''paint'' shock absorbers as being so simple, have you actually seen inside say an Ohlins TT44 or inside a set of their gas charged Superbike forks? Try downloading a TTX40 manual and the valving reference programme at some stage the see if you are prepared to repeat your parting statement?

I tend to agree. A large number of Kiwi males have rebuilt trailer brake master cylinders. And why not? 3 moving parts, 2 rubber seals, and that's it. But give them a Honda Accord ABS modulator unit and they'll be blubbing into their beer in record time. It seems likely that their is a similar relationship in automotive shock absorber units... I'd tackle my FXR150 forks without too many second thoughts, but I'm not so sure I'd want to take my Ohlins R&T forks to pieces. It's not that I couldn't get them to bits or back together, if they're anything like the Marzocchi RAC50s etc that I've looked at, then there's pretty comprehensive servicing manuals available off the net, but the manuals don't go into many of the techniques and intricacies surrounding such a task.

[White trash]

Half the people who spend $$$ on ohlins will get outridden by ya average joe on a 5k bike anyway.

That a challenge?

[Deano]

Half the people who spend $$$ on ohlins will get outridden by ya average joe on a 5k bike anyway.

Do you have any evidence of this ?

[White trash]

Actually anyone who knows me will testify that I am actually very helpful and mindful / up front about costs.

I'll attest to that. Read the very first WBP Racing race reporthere, Robert closed his very hectic business to spend two full days helping set up our new bike. I don't remember seeing an invoice for that.

In all our upgrades, services or even the purchase of our Ohlins components, not once have we looked at an invoice and said "Shit! That's expensive".

[DEATH_INC.]

That a challenge?

Swap ya engines and yer on....

[DEATH_INC.]

Do you have any evidence of this ?

[DEATH_INC.]

Hmmmm,
I get where RT is coming from, there are some dodgy workshops out there that shouldn't be let near anything, let alone expensive, quality products. I don't doubt for a second that he's right in this case.
BUT I also believe that there are plenty of other people out there more than capable of servicing a set of forks properly. It is all relevant, forks and shocks ARE simple devices, but only if you know what you're looking at. Rebuilding them is simply a matter of using the CORRECT parts and tools and CARE.
RT's expertise is in setting them up of course, this is not being questioned.
I also believe that RT has the right as a distributor to defend and protect his product, you don't have to read his posts......

[Mikkel]

The core of the issue is money, we the motorcycling public cannot afford nor justify 10-30% of the motorcycles cost on shocks and requisite servicing, justifiably we have no choice but to seek other methods, as a business man I am sure you can appreciate this.

Indeed, but could we not agree that if you fork out a significant amount of dollars to get some Ohlins for your bike - then perhaps paying for good servicing by people in the know is just protecting your investment. I don't think you'll see too many people running their custom paintjobs through a Shell car wash TBH.

As for the complexity issue-a shock is a container containing oil and not much more. 'Fluid loss through an orifice' and 'pressure created as a resistance to flow' pretty much cover the technical side, couple that with attention to detail and your done.

If you want to view and treat your suspension with such rough simplicity I am sure that will be reflected in how they work out for you when you are on the road.

Sure enough there are some shocks out there which are incredibly basic without fancy bits and adjustments - and I'm sure you need to put your mind to it in order to screw them up...
But it's no different from saying 'a tyre is just a piece of rubber'. True, but if that's your attitude you won't win any races and chances are next time the road in front of you plays up you'll be sliding along your bike and wondering what just happened.

Oh dude. to use your analogy, a saturn five rocket motor is just two bags one containing oxygen, one hydrogen, give it a squeeze and light the blue touch paper and stand clear. The devil is in the detail and thats where the difference is.

That is an awesome simile!

Its kind of surprising to me that people DONT spend ten to thirty percent of the cost of a bike on the bits that will without question make the vehicle more pleasurable and safer to ride. People focus too much on the "motor" in motorcycle I guess.

I wonder what the cycle in motorcycle is then? The 'rider on/off' cycle or the 'on/off the road' cycle...