2 stroke vs 4 stroke

[Chickenlegs]

2 strokes belong on chainsaws and race tracks. Too much of a PITA for regular road use IMHO unless you actually like reboring engines, fannying about with 2 stroke pumps/premix and changing spark plugs.

Absolute bullshit!

Have you ever had any road 2-strokes or are you jumping on the bandwagon...

[speedpro]

I can't comment on the Suzuki scooters but I did work in a Yamaha shop and had the opportunity to ride both the Yamaha Beewee(100cc 2-stroke) and the Yamaha Cygnus(125cc 4-stroke). They had fairly similar outright performance - acceleration and top speed. However the Cygnus was a far more refined scooter. It moved off and got along without too many sensations other than the wind going past. The Beewee on the other hand was a little busier, nothing to worry about but just seemed to be more going on than the Cygnus. In comparison to the Chinese scooters there wasn't any, comparison that is. The price of the Cygnus is getting up there a bit but it's a bloody good scooter. The Beewee at least has a low oil warning light so there is no requirement to check. You can put a couple of tanks through once it comes on.

Keep a good eye on the wheel bearings if you go Suzuki. Both scooters and GN250s must have the crappiest bearings the Chinese make.

You have to try the brakes out on those things as well. I guarantee I could outbrake anything in the shop with anybody else riding it. you grab two handfulls and it was like running into a brick wall.

[davereid]

Choose the two-stroke.

It will use more fuel than the four stroke, but as you are running on an oily rag anyway it is irrelevant.

It will produce more power, and be a more rewarding ride.

It WONT cost you more to run.

Yep, you have to feed it two-stroke oil.

But it only eats at at about 100:1, so every $200 of gas you need $14 oil, or $17 if you buy synthetic. (Which is a great idea.)

That 100 litres of gas may take you 2000 - 4000 km depending on what you buy and how you ride it.

So at the same time you need a new bottle of two-stroke, you 4-stroke riding pal, needs oil too. But more than you need. Maybe he needs a filter too. He needs the valve clearances reset. Do it yourself, or, for $85/hr you can get it done at the shop.

Both bikes will need airfilters cleaned and re-oiled, and general nuts-and-bolts.

Question 2...

Do you REALLY need a 125 ?

Good moped reg 50cc two-strokes will kill any hill.
Trust my big-arse ! 95kg of tester here and 40,000 km of testing.

A 50cc moped reg bike...
- needs no WOF
- costs $67 a year to register
- can be ridden on ANY licence
- Can legally only do 50km/hr
- Will climb any hill as long as its a GOOD BRAND two stroke

Your 125 cc bike..
- will cost $200 + for rego
- will need WOFs @ $40
- needs a Motorcycle licence
- BUT.. is capable of 80-100kmh, and motorway use, very good feature if you need to use a motorway

IMHO, a 2-stroke, quality moped, does 90% of commuting.. disadvantaged only if you need to go on the motorway.

For what its worth, I do 14km a day on SH1 on a moped. It takes me 15 minutes. At the legal speed limit, it would take me 10. Unless the lights were red.

[WRT]

Also worth bearing in mind that 4-strokes are generally higher compression and therefore give you a bit more torque.

You sure about that? I don't know scooters, but I know MX and here's the closest 2 stroke vs 4 stroke comparison I can make:

http://www.motorbikes.be/en/compare/4570/4568/

05' CR 250 R vs 05 CRF 450 R. Both Honda, both MX. Despite the four stroke having almost double the capacity, the two stroke makes more power, AND MORE TORQUE, plus it weighs less. The four stroke does have a higher compression ratio, and it does have more engine braking, but it doesn't have more torque.

In fact, if you compare the same size CC rating:

http://www.motorbikes.be/en/compare/4570/4608/

The 2 stroke more than double the torque, and nearly double the HP. And lets face it, Honda has given the four stroke significantly more development time and money.

Plus I know which one is easier to start, easier to work on, and which one costs less for a service. Four strokes have two advantages, sound and fuel economy. Everything else goes the two strokes way.

Now scooters might be a different kettle of fish, so perhaps someone who knows scooter models might like to pick out a similar comparison?

[FLYMO]

yeah 2 stroke the way to go
never likeed the sound of a 4 stroke scooter
just doesnt sound right

[Coyote]

And lets face it, Honda has given the four stroke significantly more development time and money.

Plus I know which one is easier to start, easier to work on, and which one costs less for a service. Four strokes have two advantages, sound and fuel economy. Everything else goes the two strokes way.

That's because Mr Honda never liked 2 strokes.

2 strokes have the sound advantage

[scracha]

Plus I know which one is easier to start

?? The starter button always works on my 4 strokes.

easier to work on, and which one costs less for a service.

Doesn't really count for much when they require a hell of a lot more servicing.

Absolute bullshit!

Have you ever had any road 2-strokes or are you jumping on the bandwagon...

Suzuki GP100
Suzuki GP1somehting (ok, a GP125 but it was bored out)
Suzuki GP125
Suzuki X5
Some piaggio 50cc scooter thingie.

There is basically zero (nil, nada, eff all) maintenance on a modern 4 stroke so your comparisons are a joke. I don't see many 2 strokes running about on their original rings after 100,000 kms? I don't know any 2 stroke owners that just get their bike serviced once a year. Hell, one of my four strokes never missed a beat for 3 years (daily commuting use and 150km each way 140kmph (UK roads) trip to girlfriends at weekends) and only had one oil change during the whole time. The 2 strokes were a complete hassle. Mental fun but just nothing but hassle.

Aside from a track bike I'd never own one again. If you're quite handy and enjoy working on bikes then yep, 2 strokes are fun and easy to work on. If you need a bike to get you from A to B and aren't particularly interested in maintenance then a 2 stroke is not for you.

[Tank]

Thanks all for your help.

Got the Missus a AN125 (4 stroke) from my friends at Holeshot.

They have little margin in them, but they threw in helmet and gloves for her.

[Timber020]

?? The starter button always works on my 4 strokes.


Doesn't really count for much when they require a hell of a lot more servicing.



Suzuki GP100
Suzuki GP1somehting (ok, a GP125 but it was bored out)
Suzuki GP125
Suzuki X5
Some piaggio 50cc scooter thingie.

There is basically zero (nil, nada, eff all) maintenance on a modern 4 stroke so your comparisons are a joke. I don't see many 2 strokes running about on their original rings after 100,000 kms? I don't know any 2 stroke owners that just get their bike serviced once a year. Hell, one of my four strokes never missed a beat for 3 years (daily commuting use and 150km each way 140kmph (UK roads) trip to girlfriends at weekends) and only had one oil change during the whole time. The 2 strokes were a complete hassle. Mental fun but just nothing but hassle.

Aside from a track bike I'd never own one again. If you're quite handy and enjoy working on bikes then yep, 2 strokes are fun and easy to work on. If you need a bike to get you from A to B and aren't particularly interested in maintenance then a 2 stroke is not for you.

Hell of a lot more servicing? The suzuki GP and X series were gone by the early 80s werent they? Thats a quarter century ago. Before cell phones, no internet, Carless days, John lennon getting shot, cortinas and capris still being made.......thats old stuff. Its like my father in law complaining about the build quality of toyotas because the one he brought in 1978 rusted in the doors. As for the Piaggo, arent they italian?

2 strokes have got alot better since then, they still put out more power and weigh less but the maintainance schedules have massively been reduce and there longevity increased. The main reason more of them arent about are due to EPA requirements strangling them. Your still getting more bike with a comparitable 2 stroke, and on scooters and hills, hp counts in traffic.

The 4 strokes do require less serviceing, but not a hell of a lot less. And when it is time for them to be done it tends to be more expensive anyhow. Ask the guys that went from CR250s to CRF's how there servicing costs have gone. There has to be good reason why so many scooters are still 2 strokes.

[Chickenlegs]

??

Suzuki GP100
Suzuki GP1somehting (ok, a GP125 but it was bored out)
Suzuki GP125
Suzuki X5
Some piaggio 50cc scooter thingie.

There's your problem... All/mostly Slowzukis....

Must be why you came to NZ then... Were part of the sheep brigade then already...

[quallman1234]

Wooooo now we have a real 2 stroke vs 4 stroke thread brewing!

He has a point you haven't had a modern 2 stroke.

Air cooled 2 strokes espically.

Have you had bad expirence with ol 2 smokers Mr Honda ehhhh sorry i mean scracha

[scracha]

A 50cc moped reg bike...
- needs no WOF
- costs $67 a year to register
- can be ridden on ANY licence

Who says the laws in this country are stupid? Any license? Now WOF? I mean, FFS my wee bike trailer needs a wof but they let untrained idiots out on deathtrap mopeds?

Wooooo now we have a real 2 stroke vs 4 stroke thread brewing!

He has a point you haven't had a modern 2 stroke.

Most of my mates had them. One in particular seemed to have to take the bus more often than not upon purchasing a 3 year old RGV250.

Have you had bad expirence with ol 2 smokers Mr Honda ehhhh sorry i mean scracha

Mr Honda? It's only my second one you twat I've had Suzuki's, umpteen Yamahas (love em), umpteen Kawasaki's and also an Eyetye bike.

And comparing high performance screaming 250cc 4 stroke MX bikes that are trying to make the same power as a 250 2 stroke isn't very valid. Yeah, 2 strokes have more bang per cc and are lighter but I never disputed that.

Modern 2 strokes? What modern 2 strokes? I haven't seen the 2 stroke equivalent of a CBR600 in my local bike shop lately.

2 strokes are for fags
(but hey, if anyone wants to lend me one at the track I'll suck cock*)














*cock must have no feathers left, be throughly cooked and preferably dipped in barbecue sauce.

[WRT]

Most of my mates had them. One in particular seemed to have to take the bus more often than not upon purchasing a 3 year old RGV250.
[snip]
And comparing high performance screaming 250cc 4 stroke MX bikes that are trying to make the same power as a 250 2 stroke isn't very valid. Yeah, 2 strokes have more bang per cc and are lighter but I never disputed that.

I did mention that I only know MX, not scooters, so you are right - I was comparing "high performance screaming" MX bikes. However, you're using an RGV250 as an example, so I feel somewhat justified.

Despite the somewhat ambiguous thread title, the OP was talking scooters so my question still stands - does anyone know of a similar comparison between 2/ and 4/ scooters? Same manufacturer, similar output, same target market, just a different type of engine? Would help if the maintenance schedule was included as well.

Edit: oh and the "easier to start" comment was referring to the CR/CRF range, dunno if any scooters these days are still kick start, but a 2/ is much easier to kick over than a 4/ - comes back to your point about the higher compression.

[C_A]

jesus chirst. I roll on a 100k old rg250. 3 kick max to start. reliable as an old watch
old pasolla. single kick to start. has been aorund the clock a few times, and it goes fine.

two strokes are sweet as. all the neigh sayers are pretty moronic to not realise that mopeds have been predominantly 2 stroke since their inception. and what city dweller moped owner does ANY maintenance on them, or has trouble with them? none

[Chickenlegs]

Who says the laws in this country are stupid? Any license? Now WOF? I mean, FFS my wee bike trailer needs a wof but they let untrained idiots out on deathtrap mopeds?





2 strokes are for fags

I agree with the first post....

I never knew cigarettes could ride motorbikes...