Ardmore - need support!

**dammad1** · 6th July 2008, 19:46

Originally Posted by telliman

my view is that noise has nothing to do with it, its merely an excuse.
they just dont want a mx track in there neighbourhood point blank!!!
and eventually they will get there way.

Yep, I agree, they could be dead silent and people would still find something to complain about.
Its human nature when your miserable and you see other people having fun you just have to moan your ass off.
The council needs to grow some balls and tell the pricks to fuck off!

**cs363** · 6th July 2008, 20:08

With attitudes like this, eventually the 'pricks' will have their way. If you don't believe that noise issues are real you are paddling a one-man canoe up a big river in Egypt....

**Reckless** · 6th July 2008, 20:29

Originally Posted by dammad1

Yep, I agree, they could be dead silent and people would still find something to complain about.
Its human nature when your miserable and you see other people having fun you just have to moan your ass off.
The council needs to grow some balls and tell the pricks to fuck off!

Oh i wish it happened that way but this is a council we are dealing with!

But firstly! These people are reading and probably printing everything on here so for goodness sake cut the swearing and the crap because they could put these forward as evidence to the character of the people that participate at Ardmore even if they are out of context and you don't ride there. They have done that already from Johns email.
Secondly John should have got a noise meter a long time ago and metered everyone as they entered the track there are still some quite loud 4 smokers out there. So the chickens maybe coming home to roost.
OK back to the council and the resource consent process. Well Helen and the greenies have got the tail wagging the dog and given these people real power. And pretty much all the council are concerned with are creating a paper trail so they can prove they have done due process. They really don't care whats right or wrong or who wins they just don't want to be in the shit for their decision later. And which ever way it goes they probably will be hated by someone. The ones they want to keep happy will be their rate payers even if its just a few stirring up the rest. Trouble is the resource consent process gives real power the the one or two that like to object to everything that happens anywhere. So the best way to win this is to factually show them as radicals and to show the track forms a community service that is indispensable to Papakura.
Unfortunatly this is harder to prove than mud in the creek and Thumper noise that you can probably hear from their balconies even if its not offensive.
Shit I hope that John Cobb's got his act together I better make more effort and turn up at least to show my presence for the next meeting!

**noobi** · 6th July 2008, 20:50

hasnt the track been there alot longer than the people complaining??
why dont these people realise that if you buy a house with a motox track anywhere near it that people with motox bikes are going to congregate there and enjoy motox as a sport??
i can understand if long time land owners are complaining about the noise but i doubt that they are
also no one complains about the noise from rugby games ( ok not the best comparison ill admit ) but if motox was a more recognised sport (like rugby)and regular people like our lovely complainents understood that its what we love

and what we are passionate about then maybe they wouldnt be so quick to put there hands up and say those things about these reckless lunatics riding unmuffled, dangerous, polluting, native tree destroying and somehow devil supporting anti christ crotch rockets????

its just a sport, we love

it and we do it for enjoyment
not to try and annoy people

but unfortunately some people are just too one eyed about these things and just believe there right and everyone else is wrong and should just piss off
i just think that everyone should TRY to see the big picture and TRY to see it from our (motox loving community) point of view

**scott411** · 6th July 2008, 20:55

yes ardmore has been there for a long time, and Ardmore Quarry rd has a lot more residents John has run it very well for a lot of years, i wish him all the best, i need as many tracks open as possible

**theblacksmith** · 6th July 2008, 20:56

How many kids use Ardmore? Where would the council like to see them spend their time - tagging walls in Papakura and Drury or actively engaged in a very popular sport with their parents and friends.There are many positives you can put across to the panel but noise has to be reduced.

**DEATH_INC.** · 6th July 2008, 21:04

Originally Posted by theblacksmith

How many kids use Ardmore? Where would the council like to see them spend their time - tagging walls in Papakura and Drury or actively engaged in a very popular sport with their parents and friends.There are many positives you can put across to the panel but noise has to be reduced.

Good point. Me 'n Draco were discussing this this morning. Get a few of 'em to the meeting, kids will be a great ally. Get them to ask the whingers why they are shutting their playground.
Have you checked into the council planning (or resource consents etc)? Often this stuff is motivated by developers....
Noise is an issue yes, but some people are very unreasonable about it. Sometimes you cannot satisfy people.

**DEATH_INC.** · 6th July 2008, 21:05

Originally Posted by scott411

yes ardmore has been there for a long time,

I think we all know that after western springs, the argument that we were here first doesn't work unfortunately...

**scott411** · 6th July 2008, 21:09

yeah fair call,

**telliman** · 6th July 2008, 22:08

Originally Posted by Reckless

Oh i wish it happened that way but this is a council we are dealing with!

But firstly! These people are reading and probably printing everything on here so for goodness sake cut the swearing and the crap because they could put these forward as evidence to the character of the people that participate at Ardmore even if they are out of context and you don't ride there. They have done that already from Johns email.
Secondly John should have got a noise meter a long time ago and metered everyone as they entered the track there are still some quite loud 4 smokers out there. So the chickens maybe coming home to roost.
OK back to the council and the resource consent process. Well Helen and the greenies have got the tail wagging the dog and given these people real power. And pretty much all the council are concerned with are creating a paper trail so they can prove they have done due process. They really don't care whats right or wrong or who wins they just don't want to be in the shit for their decision later. And which ever way it goes they probably will be hated by someone. The ones they want to keep happy will be their rate payers even if its just a few stirring up the rest. Trouble is the resource consent process gives real power the the one or two that like to object to everything that happens anywhere. So the best way to win this is to factually show them as radicals and to show the track forms a community service that is indispensable to Papakura.
Unfortunatly this is harder to prove than mud in the creek and Thumper noise that you can probably hear from their balconies even if its not offensive.
Shit I hope that John Cobb's got his act together I better make more effort and turn up at least to show my presence for the next meeting!

shut up and ride man!!!

**dammad1** · 6th July 2008, 22:14

Originally Posted by DEATH_INC.

Noise is an issue yes, but some people are very unreasonable about it. Sometimes you cannot satisfy people.

Absouletly, some bikes may be a bit loud but rectifying this will not stop the complaints they will just find something else to complain about, these are the same people that after moving out to a rural communities start complaining about the next door neighbours roosters crowing and cows pooing.

I'm not condoning noisy bikes but people have to see the big picture this is just more PC crap and unfortunately I think this is a losing battle that we are going to see more and more often.

**cs363** · 6th July 2008, 22:28

I don't doubt that most of the residents are complaining for reasons other than those publicly stated, but you need to play the game - take away the things they are complaining about, appear to be compliant with the council/ratepayers wishes and it will take a considerable amount of wind out of their sails. I think the 'fair and reasonable' approach is what works best in these situations, rolling over and saying that they are just complaining for the sake of it and not doing anything about what are obvious problems is just feeding their cause.
As population density increases issues like this will become more and more relevant, the motorcycling community needs to be seen to active in addressing the publics complaints if we don't want to lose valuable riding areas. The unfortunate thing is that it is almost inevitable that riding areas close to large centres are doomed in the long term due to pressures caused by increasing amounts of people wanting to live in the area, regardless of any other issues.
You only have to think back to Bay park or Western Springs to realise this.
But what do we do, ignore the issues and keep moving further away until there is nowhere left or address the issues now and try to all get along?

**camchain** · 7th July 2008, 01:58

It seems to me the situation with Ardmore now requires immediate and serious effort. The existance of currently available methods of reducing noise doesn't appear to be solving the problem fast enough. The choice looks like lose some noise and some performance or lose Ardmore. What is the least 'restrictive' option?

What I've suggested is a principle of a muffler addition in the simplest and easiest to impliment form I could think of to start the ball rolling, and there are other possibilities. The number 8 fencing wire angle shouldn't be underestimated.

There are also plenty of examples around of really tiny exit holes on motorcycle exhausts. The baffle plate in that drawing could have any number of holes of any particlar size to ensure the engine still runs well.

I disagree that adding a baffle plate would automatically cause overheating. With most exhausts still being of 'straight through' design, they can stand a fair bit of baffling without causing any real problems. disrupting and breaking up the energy pulse of the exiting sound wave even by a even a fairly small amount could be useful. Especially where many bikes are being run at all at once in the same small area.

Using the same principle and with a couple more stacked baffle plates (with holes offset/not aligned between plates) you'd get better flow while maintaining a good sound wave disruption effect. I always liked the idea of adjustability of the old Super Trapp design (stacked discs) that some of you will remember. The ultimate muffler for these days might have an externally adjustable internal vane/s for running in stealth mode. Certainly do-able if expensive to manufacture.

Surprised to hear the club doesn't have a Db meter available at the track. Does anyone know how much they cost?

I think pushing the angle of healthy sport for kids is one to really emphasise at these hearings.

**scott411** · 7th July 2008, 08:16

although i agree with your general line of thinking, the design will cause problems, also not all mufflers have the removeable plate like your diagram shows, that much back pressure and restriction will cause problems, put one into your bike, start it at night, and watch how quick the header will glow red. the reason supertrapp type system are not that popular now is that better designs have been made, and the supertrapp system does not work at the RPM that the fourstrokes pull.

we need to get quieter, all places that we ride have to start enforcing noise limits, but it comes down to numbers of organisers, if you have ever been to ardmore you shoudl have noticed that John is almost a one man band, if he starts noise testing bikes who does the rest of the stuff, i do not have the answer,
one of the problems is the way we test as well, we do a the FIM static test in the pits, that is time consuming, and easy to beat if you know how, we need to do a flyby test, and start black flagging guys that fail, unfortuanly Motorcycle riders are not used to be told no, and the first guy that you black flag will complain that everyone else is just as loud, and normally get abusive, unfortuanlty i do not have a magic answer, it will not be a 5 minute fix, but the first thing we need to do is educate. Do you know you get a performance gain from packing your muffler, i have the dyno charts to prove it.