Ardmore - need support!

[cs363]

ban four strokes?

but seriously, if we are seen to make an effort to reduce noise, that will help out cause, worldwide.

Ah...the voice of reason! Well at least on the second bit...

[Danger]

ban four strokes?

but seriously, if we are seen to make an effort to reduce noise, that will help out cause, worldwide.

Give that man a cigar! The four stroke has really endangered the life of our sport. Heck even at the Sandpit the last few rides and there was a CRF250 roaring around the MX track and the noise we could hear from the carpark was way over the top. I caught this rider out on the trails and followed him for awhile and when we stopped I was surprised that it was not a 450 due to the amount of noise it pumped out. When I mentioned the fact that it was real loud the rider was boasting to me how it was all tricked out blah blah blah and was quite proud of the fact, even though I had caught him on my little quiet 200!
Then we stopped down at the old carpark area for a rest and could hear these two four strokes approaching from a distance (the trees really don't block any noise) and two young fellas show up and decide to start showing off to us in the old carpark and the noise was so obnoxious to us (two 2 stroke riders and another quiet four stroke) that we had to get out of there.
If we find it annoying, imagine what it is like to people that don't love bikes like us.
Four stroke riders really need to grow a brain and save our sport!

[Reckless]

I couldn't agree more Danger!!
They went out of two strokes for pollution reasons we are told YE! right! TUI!!
What about the noise polution that is causing all these problems. The promotion of 4 strokes by the manufacturers is for money and money alone. Four strokes (as I have stated B4) produce a much larger revenue stream for the manufacturers (in parts etc) and their shops (an valve jobs and labour) than 2 strokes. You can do anything with a 2smoker. Correct pipe, weighted fly wheel, power valve & timing settings etc etc. KTM have proved that. They just don't choose to because it doesn't make them so much money!!!!!

As stated on here by another KB'er that lives in the area at Ardmore. Its the boooom of the 4 stroke he can hear from his house not the reeving of the 2smoker.

I spent 2 hours in the saddle (According to the hour meter) at the Sandpit on Sunday and KTM boy will have to start looking at the noise out there as well I reckon. Nice sunny day, and saw my first deer out there!

[Husky125]

The problem with this hearing is that the people complaining can just make stuff up about whats happening and we have to prove that its not. This makes it almost impossible for John to win. Does this mean that we can complain about the noise the motorway makes if we live within a km of it and get it shut down. Or even the roads around us.

[camchain]

Back to the drawing board I guess. I suppose it stung a bit to have a suggestion kicked into touch given the current situation. My starting point was to try and come up with something quickly that really wasn't a design at all. It'd be laugh trying to patent a plate with some holes drilled in it though! I think the concept of muffler inserts is sound. It's just a matter of execution. I'd read a DB dawg test (KXF450) where dyno showed only about 1 1/2 horsepower loss at max rpm. I like the cone inserts idea in the '08 YZF450.

Sometimes 'quick and dirty' can work very well. I seem to remember the old days of scrutineering where for a while, handlebar ends had to be blocked off with a coin (In case of collecting a bar end on a body part)

Might be worthwhile to quietly start another thread on noise. It's a complicated and important subject. I have a couple of other thoughts about muffler tweaks/add-ons that I'm going to play around with anyway. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I realise that others could be reading these posts and I don't want to make a possible rod for our own backs but we need to be seen to be actively working towards improving things.

Ultimately the noise issue solution will include a range of different measures. Db testing is certainly not a straightforward thing to implement, there are a lot of angles to it. Please don't think I was running down John Cobb in any way. I have nothing but respect for folks who are willing to put time in like this.
Your hunch was right Scott, I've never been to Ardmore but I'd like to have the opportunity to. With fuel prices being the way they are, riding areas close to town are a real asset. It would just be a huge disappointment if Ardmore were to close.

That's interesting Re muffler repack being good for performance. I can well believe it. When I was at school I tried a few things out with making my own muffler to replace the boat anchor on the XL (No flames please - I was 15 and world was a different place back then). The bike definitely ran better with the right pipe length and finding optimum amount of back pressure.

I was surprised and interested to see these power bomb headers when they came out. You would think that every different possibility would have been tried with exhausts. More possibilities are out there, we just have to look for them.

The four stroke sound wave clearly has a very different profile and frequency to a 2 stroke yet there is still basically the same sort of bang going on in the combustion chamber, only half the amount of bangs. On paper 4 strokes should be half as quiet! It must be possible to modify the shape of that sound wave in a way that's not being done by current exhausts.

Fingers crossed for some better news on these hearings.

[Wellyman]

I havent seen someone come on this site ( VERY VERY much so the dirt area) about how loud their exhaust is. THEY ARE MAKING UP A BUNCH OF FUCKEN BULLSHIT, U WORTHLESS FUCKEN NATZIS!
Keep Ardmore open, so we can have a hobbie, while you can go fucken walk the dog and sip flat whites as your hobbie, we want a past time too.
Cheers,
WM

[cs363]

See you at the Ardmore closing party.....

[oldguy]

They just don't want bikes there, and that's final, so no matter what we do, they want them gone, its the sign of the times, hell they don't even like road bikes. I love riding that bit of road it gets nice and twisty up past the track. When I feel like taking the long way home from work I come down through there, I have heard the locals have been complaining.

[Buddy L]

Just got this email ----

WE GOT HAMMERED


We had the first day of the resource consent hearings for the track yesterday, and the residents gave us both barrels.

One of the residents started off quoting riders comments from the Kiwi biker website bragging about how loud the bikes are

THANKS

BORIS

Remember guys we're not realy helping John here by flapping our lips. Think alittle before you type.

[cs363]

Remember guys we're not realy helping John here by flapping our lips. Think alittle before you type.

Very politely put!

I assume the meeting was this Monday (today)? So does anyone have an update on proceedings?

[B0000M]

actually i dont recall anyone bragging about how loud anyones bike was, id be interested if anyone could quote it or link to the post, and i read every post in the offroad forum.

[Reckless]

As stated on here by another KB'er that lives in the area at Ardmore. Its the boooom of the 4 stroke he can hear from his house not the reeving of the 2smoker.

Hopefully you guys are not referring to this comment I made. If you are it does not say anyone was bragging about their bike at all. If you read it, it states that he could hear the 4 strokes from his house but not the 2 strokes. He stated as a rider it wasn't very loud and didn't offend him at all.
I distinctly remember the post and if I get time I'll try and sift through all the likely threads.

Here you go he was referring to what his mate who lives in the area had reported to him.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...8&postcount=56

Hopefully this will clear the confusion if that's what you guys are getting wound up about! Jeepers guys! To much passion and to much swearing & slagging people off, you aren't doing anyone any good!

I must say if it doesn't go well I do feel sorry for all those families that go out there. A lot of the kids are able to practice after school on a Wednesday for competition on every 2nd Sunday. There's quite a few father son teams pitting out there. And I would say if Ardmore closes there will be a lot of kids missing out. The bond I formed with my son karting for all those years, is just unexplainable. The time with him, the challenge, the ups and down, the tears and highs. It has made him what he is today! It will be the same for MX, if these selfish people only new what they are robbing from these kids!!!!!

[theblacksmith]

We'll develop some nuclear bikes - they should be quiet and fast as.
Just joking!!

[B0000M]

i was referring to this

One of the residents started off quoting riders comments from the Kiwi biker website bragging about how loud the bikes are

and i totally back what reckless is saying. ive been thru juniors, and granted didnt live in auckland at the time, but without the local practise tracks it wouldnt've got where i got with the sport and i wouldn't have had heaps of cool times with my dad either.

[NordieBoy]

although i agree with your general line of thinking, the design will cause problems, also not all mufflers have the removeable plate like your diagram shows, that much back pressure and restriction will cause problems, put one into your bike, start it at night, and watch how quick the header will glow red. the reason supertrapp type system are not that popular now is that better designs have been made, and the supertrapp system does not work at the RPM that the fourstrokes pull.

Extra backpressure in general = more restriction = richer.
Glowing headers in general = leaner.

On a SuperTrapp the standard style packing is there for higher freq sound and the discs for lower freq sound.

SuperTrapp needs to drop the current IDS2 range and go with an IDS3 that has a larger diameter with more packing and still keep the discs to tune for application.