Fuel Injection v Carbs

[avgas]

You needed give that up... setting the idle on your EFI bike is the same as on your carb'd bike... you turn the knob.

Really? good to know as my previous experience has been with cars and 955i......i could find idle adjustment anywhere on them. Ended up having to run piggy back computer.

[vifferman]

Really? good to know as my previous experience has been with cars and 955i......i could find idle adjustment anywhere on them. Ended up having to run piggy back computer.

Yes.
Or no.
It's basically the same on this VFR as it was on my carbed one - it just turns the throttle spindle a small amount. Unlike my son's car - if you try to adjust the idle, you end up with into a shit-fight between the EFI unit and the engine. To adjust the idle, you have to adjust the idle mixture and the idle air bleed.

[imdying]

Really? good to know as my previous experience has been with cars and 955i......i could find idle adjustment anywhere on them. Ended up having to run piggy back computer.

In general yes. The base idle is usually still just a good old throttle stop. However...

Yes.
Or no.
It's basically the same on this VFR as it was on my carbed one - it just turns the throttle spindle a small amount. Unlike my son's car - if you try to adjust the idle, you end up with into a shit-fight between the EFI unit and the engine. To adjust the idle, you have to adjust the idle mixture and the idle air bleed.

As he says, the ECU has a certain amount of control over the idle via an idle air control stepper motor. It uses this for things like the choke. You shouldn't have to fight it though, if you find that that is that case, check the manual, you probably have to put it into dealer mode first. No drama, usually requires no more than a bent paper clip, or pushing dash buttons in the right order for long enouh.

/edit: Yes, I know I said 'choke', but you'll have to work with me a little... makes more sense to most than 'cold start enrichment control'.

[Zealot]

Well said imdying. EFI is vastly superior to carburettors in just about every way. It's much more reliable, much more robust, and can result in a higher power output with lower emissions.

It's also simpler, in my opinion. Injectors are very simple devices, and are easy to replace. Admitedly the sensors are more complex but they rarely fail. Once the maps are set up correctly, the system should be relatively faultless.

I would write up a massive rant as to why, but imdying covered much of it.

In short, there is nothing mechanical that cannot be improved with electronic control.

[TripleZee Dyno]

I think Ivan must of had a hard day in the office. Or needs bigger extraction fans in his dyno room.
He has taken some "facts" and drawn some pretty specious conclusions.
The same arguments were offered when electronic ignition replaced points, when swingarms replaced rigid, etc etc etc even when they put air in tyres.

Early efi wasnt much chop, and the mikunis and keihins of the time were as good as if not better. Even today the modern Japanese carbies, particularly cv carbs, work really really really well and as far as mixing fuel and air on a stock bike I dont see EFI being a whole lot better.
Todays EFI are a lot different compared to when they first made an appearance.
From an owners perspective EFI has a major advantage when a bike is modified, much easier (and expensive) to sort tuning out, tuning carbs for modified engines will always result in compromises somewhere.
Tuning carbs is time consuming and at times a right pita unless its a Harley!
From a manufacturers point of view production costs are way cheaper, changes easy to implement and with the raft of changing environmental legislation manufacturers have to comply with, they would never have enough time and money to design new carbs every year.
I have only been riding fuel injected bikes for the last 10 years or so and as far as I am concerned I prefer it.
Considering most of my carby riding was on bikes with Tillotson, Bendix, Amal, and Dellorto efi cant help but be better.
What got Ivan started? Did Marc wind him up? they are a bit of humour at times

[rogson]

Both systems work well - but as a diyer I would rather be dealing with carbs when somethng goes awry.

[The Stranger:Me]

What got Ivan started? Did Marc wind him up? they are a bit of humour at times

Ivan fitted a set of Factory Pro velocity stacks to his FZ1 and posted before and after dyno graphs, it was all down hill from there.
To make matters worse the dyno runs were from a dynojet dyno.

[TripleZee Dyno]

I read Ivans original post, got Marc going alright!!