"85 per cent of all crashes occur below the speed limit"

**mangell6** · 14th November 2003, 17:26

This from the NZ Herald.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydispl...ection=general

>>>>Start of Article<<<
Speeding leeway tipped to stay

14.11.2003
By KEVIN TAYLOR political reporter

The 10km/h speed camera tolerance police operate will probably not be lowered, the Government has signalled.

Police Minister George Hawkins told Parliament yesterday that lowering the tolerance was not the Government's policy and "probably won't be".

He was being questioned by National Party police spokesman Tony Ryall over traffic ticket quotas and a suggestion the 10km/h tolerance might be halved.

Pointing out that 85 per cent of all crashes occur below the speed limit, Mr Ryall asked why he was supporting a lower tolerance when it was "not those speeds that kill".

Mr Hawkins replied: "That is not the Government's policy, it probably won't be the Government's policy."

Transport Minister Paul Swain is working on proposals designed to help cut the annual road toll and a package of measures, due next month, was believed by some to have included a plan to lower the police tolerance to speed limit breaches.

A spokeswoman for Mr Swain said yesterday that lowering the tolerance had always been a low priority but she would not elaborate further other than to say a package of measures is due to go to Cabinet next month.

Mr Ryall said later that Mr Hawkins' statement indicated the Government would back down on the plan.

"This is the clearest indication yet that Labour is under pressure to abandon the speed camera move in the face of strong political and public opposition."

Earlier yesterday, National MP and former transport minister Maurice Williamson questioned Land Transport Safety Authority (LTSA) officials at a select committee on the proposal to lower the tolerance.

He said that on any day of the week traffic on Auckland motorways flowed above the 5km/h tolerance proposed. "The serious accident - the very serious injury and the death ones - involve speeds considerably beyond the 10km/h tolerance and that your real target needs to be people above that."

But LTSA director David Wright said there was a "significant problem" with people driving over the speed limit on urban roads as well as the open road.

He said the proposal to lower the tolerance was only an "option" for Mr Swain to consider along with other options dealing with management of speed.

Mr Wright cited the example of two cars, one doing 50km/h and one doing 60km/h, on an urban street who both spotted somebody 40m ahead and were forced to brake.

"The car that's doing 50km/h will be able to stop before he hits the pedestrian. The car doing 60km/h is still going to hit that pedestrian or cyclist with sufficient force to cause significant injury if not death."

Mr Williamson said drivers questioned the need for the cameras on Waipuna Rd, Ti Rakau Drive, the Ellerslie Panmure Highway and some other arterial roads in the city.

The Pakuranga MP said there was a groundswell of public feeling that the speed cameras were just revenue-catchers, and although the three sites might have been blackspots once, they were not any more.

"[Police] are just simply able to go click, click, click all day long and even the vicar on his way home from church on Sundays is getting clicked."

Mr Wright said speed camera sites were regularly reassessed but he could not comment on the three sites Mr Williamson cited.

He said there was no change to the policy of putting cameras in the worst accident spots. The cameras were to address road safety, not for revenue gathering.

Camera fines collected

* 2001-02 $31.7 million

* 2002-03 $32.8 million

Police have no separate region-by-region figures.

>>>>End of Article<<<<

**Jackrat** · 14th November 2003, 18:29

Yep,that used to be called the 85-15 rule,I hope it stays on the open road.
As for the suburbs,I don,t think it should apply,I,m not talking about main roads,but side roads an such,were our kids live an play.I did a defencive riding course in OZ and was suprised at the number of guys that had crashed into cars in 50km areas while traveling at 70plus,The thing that really struck me was most of these guys still maintained they were not at fault,Dick heads!!

**wkid_one** · 14th November 2003, 19:48

I gotta agree here to....whilst I think that riding at excessive speed on the open road is a risk you take...I have no tolerance for speeding in a 50kph zone.

I was knocked over by a driver doing 40kph past an emptying school (admittedly I ran across the road - aged 5) - but had they been doing 20 as is legal - I wouldn't have been hit as they would have stopped.

I would be gutted enough to hit anyone at 50kph - let alone be driving at 70kph in a residential area - fuck that.

At least if I do it on the open road - I am more than likely to only injure myself

**What?** · 15th November 2003, 14:03

Couldn't agree more. Many places in town 50 is too fast. Many places out of town, 100 can be too slow ( boring = loss of concentration etc)

**Lou Girardin** · 17th November 2003, 07:20

It's hard to believe but we do not have lower speed limits in school zones, only when passing school buses. That would be one of the speed limits that I would agree to having no tolerance applied. But then, when did you last see a cop enforcing school bus limits?
Lou

**vifferman** · 6th April 2004, 15:46

Jackrat said:

I did a defencive riding course in OZ and was suprised at the number of guys that had crashed into cars in 50km areas while traveling at 70plus

I know this isn't quite what you meant, but I was amazed when driving in Victoria (the place NZ copies all the stupid ideas from, for some unfathomable reason) that due to the terror regime with hidden speed cameras, spotter planes, etc., people drive at LESS than 100 km/h on the "open" road for fear they will get pinged, yet around town they will scream along at anything up to or over 100 k. (!)
The big problem on the highways in Victoria now is you've got these long, boring, well-surfaced roads, with people crawling along and dropping off to sleep coz it's too damned boring! The mind is a funny thing - without sensory input, it starts to ignore whatever isn't changing. Make speed limits safe and comfy ; make roads straight and safe , etc.

I read an article by a guy in NT, who found that it didn't matter what speed he did (100, 200) on the long straight roads there, it was impossible to stay alert. The answer was to vary the speed as much as possible, so that the brain paid attention.

By the way - the road toll is creeping up again, despite the blitz on speeding.
Strange that. Funny how the simplistic statistical approach to road safety doesn't work...

**Jackrat** · 6th April 2004, 16:10

Yeah I know what you mean about the long bits.I drove a pilot vehicule over there for a couple of years,that South oz to Sydney Road would put anyone to sleep.I did the west oz run a couple of times and was suprised that people crash on the corners on the Nullabor until I saw it for myself,The longest straight peace of road in the world and people miss the only corner for 290kms,Gott'a laugh until it happens to you.

**Devil** · 6th April 2004, 16:10

Originally Posted by firestormer

By the way - the road toll is creeping up again, despite the blitz on speeding.
Strange that. Funny how the simplistic statistical approach to road safety doesn't work...

Thats because the road toll doesn't take into account general population increase, or the increase in cars on the road. Comparing 5 years worth of road toll trend is useless without the above information.

**Skyryder** · 6th April 2004, 16:56

Well it is good news to hear that the 10 k tolerance is still going to apply.

Schools now have a 40 k speed restriction outside the main entrance. This is usually marked by way of neon lights when it is in force. If my memory serves me correctly a school bus with signs front and rear should not be passed any faster than 20 k's. As for the 50 k speed limit in the urban area I believe this should be upped to 60 kph. Too fast then what aboput 55. Like who drives at at fifty these days? And when you do come up behind someone who is going that speed what do you do? Pass them or mutter obscenities for going so slow

Skyryder

**spudchucka** · 6th April 2004, 19:43

Originally Posted by DevilWTKC

Thats because the road toll doesn't take into account general population increase, or the increase in cars on the road.

Nor does it account for rash stupidity and the national deterioration of the common sense gland amongst our population.

**Posh Tourer :P** · 6th April 2004, 20:12

Originally Posted by Skyryder

Well it is good news to hear that the 10 k tolerance is still going to apply.

Schools now have a 40 k speed restriction outside the main entrance. This is usually marked by way of neon lights when it is in force. If my memory serves me correctly a school bus with signs front and rear should not be passed any faster than 20 k's. As for the 50 k speed limit in the urban area I believe this should be upped to 60 kph. Too fast then what aboput 55. Like who drives at at fifty these days? And when you do come up behind someone who is going that speed what do you do? Pass them or mutter obscenities for going so slow

Skyryder

And then people will drive at 70. People will always push the limits. try falling off at 60 and see now fast it feels. Its all about habituation. 60 is seen as a normal speed and thus not that fast ( I do it myself). Then I compare it with the distances I cover in the same time by walking / cycling and think bloody hell we are lucky to be going 50. It takes me 3hours to walk home from town, but only 10 mins to ride.

**Lou Girardin** · 6th April 2004, 21:04

Originally Posted by Skyryder

Well it is good news to hear that the 10 k tolerance is still going to apply.

Schools now have a 40 k speed restriction outside the main entrance. This is usually marked by way of neon lights when it is in force. If my memory serves me correctly a school bus with signs front and rear should not be passed any faster than 20 k's. As for the 50 k speed limit in the urban area I believe this should be upped to 60 kph. Too fast then what aboput 55. Like who drives at at fifty these days? And when you do come up behind someone who is going that speed what do you do? Pass them or mutter obscenities for going so slow

Skyryder

Have I missed something? When was a blanket 40km/h school zone enacted?
Lou
PS. If you spend years and millions of dollars telling people that safe driving consists of keeping to the speed limit and wearing your seat belt, most will believe it.

**vifferman** · 7th April 2004, 10:09

When I was working in Perth (1999), I noticed that there are often police blitzes on speed around schools. I can't remember what the limit is (30? 40?) but it is rigorously enforced, and quite rightly too. They also have volunteers that stand in the middle of the road with flags to make sure people don't drive through school crossings. Also a very good idea, except in D'Auckland they'd have to replace the volunteer every second day...

**scumdog** · 7th April 2004, 21:08

Originally Posted by firestormer

Jackrat said:

I know this isn't quite what you meant, but I was amazed when driving in Victoria (the place NZ copies all the stupid ideas from, for some unfathomable reason) that due to the terror regime with hidden speed cameras, spotter planes, etc., people drive at LESS than 100 km/h on the "open" road for fear they will get pinged, yet around town they will scream along at anything up to or over 100 k. (!)
The big problem on the highways in Victoria now is you've got these long, boring, well-surfaced roads, with people crawling along and dropping off to sleep coz it's too damned boring! The mind is a funny thing - without sensory input, it starts to ignore whatever isn't changing. Make speed limits safe and comfy ; make roads straight and safe , etc.

I read an article by a guy in NT, who found that it didn't matter what speed he did (100, 200) on the long straight roads there, it was impossible to stay alert. The answer was to vary the speed as much as possible, so that the brain paid attention.

By the way - the road toll is creeping up again, despite the blitz on speeding.
Strange that. Funny how the simplistic statistical approach to road safety doesn't work...

Everybody that goes on about "yeah man, the road toll is rising, all those road nazis have got it wrong man (trying to sound like Neil out of the "Young oNES") should see the facts - sure the toll HAS gone up but look how the total km AND total vehicle numbers has gone up over the last five years - percentage-wise the road deaths have still gone down, if you like I'll get the figures.

The mention of 80% (or whatever the number mentioned was) crashes happened below the speed limit is probably linkrd to the fact that at least that number of people drive/ride at or below the speed limit.

**Skyryder** · 7th April 2004, 21:41

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

Have I missed something? When was a blanket 40km/h school zone enacted?
Lou
PS. If you spend years and millions of dollars telling people that safe driving consists of keeping to the speed limit and wearing your seat belt, most will believe it.

Lou Go to http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roads/traffi...e-04072002.pdf

Skyryder