Another reason Labour should be arseholed!

[SPman]

As if the new Immigration bill, isn't bad enough (secret evidence is going to be used by up to 14 departments with no redress and the automatic decision that the evidence is correct - no one will either know what it is, or be able to challenge it!), we now have this travesty!

"Asset forfeiture: reported back
The Law and Order Committee has reported back [PDF] on the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Bill. The bill would "reform" New Zealand's asset forfeiture law to a non-conviction-based regime, breaking down barriers between civil and criminal proceedings and allowing police to seize money, cars, homes and other valuables from people who have not been convicted of a crime (or worse, actually acquitted of one by a jury) under a "guilty until proven innocent" system with a lower burden of proof - Ahmed Zaoui standards of evidence. It's a bill every person who cares about justice and human rights should oppose.
Unfortunately, the MPs on the Law and Order Committee do not care about those things, and the bill has survived practically unchanged. There have been some minor tweaks to align it with the government's new organised crime agency (the forfeiture agency will be the police - though they won't get to keep the money, thank Cthulhu), and with current policy on Serious Fraud Office-style powers (powers to force suspects to incriminate themselves have been toned down and subjected to judicial oversight), but the rest of the bill is unchanged. The real issues around justice and human rights with this sort of system (summarised in my submission) have simply been ignored.
New Zealand will regret this. These powers are a recipe for injustice and police misconduct. They give the police real powers to punish on mere suspicion, and to victimise those who have the temerity to be acquitted of serious crime (something the police seem to regard as a mere technicality and a failure of the justice system rather than of themselves). Given that the police make mistakes (Arthur Allen Thomas, anyone?), innocent people will lose their homes, and possibly even their lives as a result of this bill. But politicians will get to posture about being "tough on crime", which is apparently all that matters."

I used to think it was just Helen gone power mad, but it seems to be something that is now affecting the whole rotten system.

A sop to the unthinking rednecks, maybe, but shit like this has no part in any society that considers itself civilised.

So, Labour is a no no, National are a pack of scurrilous, lying, deceiving, misleading, money grabbers. NZ first and Winnie should be hung from the nearest yardarm as crooks, liars and perverted shitheads, Greens are just not in the world of reality and don't know how to push when they should, push.....King Jeffys party has gone to ground........who does that leave, come election time?
Seriously!

[MisterD]

National are a pack of scurrilous, lying, deceiving, misleading, money grabbers.

Just remind us who it was that stole $800k of taxpayers money to fund their election campaign, and then changed the law to make it legal after all....

***edit***

Oh, and on the main substance of your post, civil standards of evidence are "balance of probability" not "guilty until proven innocent". I'm sure you're one of those that applauded OJ being found responsible in a civil suit after being aquitted of murdering his wife...

Nice to see Liabour's fear and mis-information tactics being used against them for a change though, keep up the good work.

[James Deuce]

Just remind us who it was that stole $800k of taxpayers money to fund their election campaign, and then changed the law to make it legal after all....

***edit***

Oh, and on the main substance of your post, civil standards of evidence are "balance of probability" not "guilty until proven innocent". I'm sure you're one of those that applauded OJ being found responsible in a civil suit after being aquitted of murdering his wife...

Nice to see Liabour's fear and mis-information tactics being used against them for a change though, keep up the good work.

Read the damn bill and stop attacking the man. You're not a politician. You have a duty of care to make sure that politicians don't push shit like this through. Just like every single voter. You lot didn't even notice when you lost the right to travel the country unmolested unless you did something defined by law as wrong.

Didn't. Even. Notice.

[MisterD]

Thanks James. Fark, the election date hasn't even been announced and we're up to our necks in scaremongering already...

[ManDownUnder]

...National are a pack of scurrilous, lying, deceiving, misleading, money grabbers.

Funny - they're getting my vote. I work hard to earn good money, I'd like more of it for me and mine rather than you and yours (call it selfish if you want).

If they're the least worst option - I'll take it - thanks.

[Patch]

they're all a pack of lying, thieving bastards - they're politicians after all.

Better we have the ones we've got, rather than the other ones out there.

[Steam]

I'm going to live in my shack up the mountain and ignore the world, and when I come down it might all be like Smith's Dream / Sleeping Dogs.
That'd be interesting.

[MSTRS:Me]

Vote Anarchy Party. You will be better off.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Just remind us who it was that stole $800k of taxpayers money to fund their election campaign, and then changed the law to make it legal after all....

***edit***

Oh, and on the main substance of your post, civil standards of evidence are "balance of probability" not "guilty until proven innocent". I'm sure you're one of those that applauded OJ being found responsible in a civil suit after being aquitted of murdering his wife...

Nice to see Liabour's fear and mis-information tactics being used against them for a change though, keep up the good work.

you need to re-read his post a little closer.

[Ixion]

I'm going to live in my shack up the mountain and ignore the world, and when I come down it might all be like Smith's Dream / Sleeping Dogs.
That'd be interesting.

That won't help you. Y'r pr'bly growing cannabis up there. Cos, why else would anyone live like that. Stands to reason that only someone with summit to hide would hole up like that. 'N how y' getting money to live on anyway?

So, balance of probabilities, whatever y'got was probably gotten as proceeds of crime.

Y' shack's confiscated. (Yeah, well MAYBE it ain't actually your shack. And maybe it is. It's confiscated anyway,and anyone who wants to argue can take it to court. ) And the rest of y'stuff is confiscated too. Criminals like you shouldn't expect to profit from y' crimes. Yeah, well maybe you ain't been found guilty of any crime. But balance of probabilities, we reckon y'r guilty of something. And that's good enough

Noice.

[enigma51]

Labour is great

They have given us
working for families
tax cuts
rail system
interest free student loans
anti smack law (safe the kids)


And thats just to name a few


What you guys bitching about you voted for them!

[avgas]

Ha the funny thing was when i china i got to talk all kinds of bad shit about china...........yet on the tv last night some chinese person was complaining about being persecuted in china.
I kind sat back and thought to myself, "Man, good thing i am safe in NZ. The government doesn't even listen to me here"

[avgas]

working for families - for the poor, not the rest of us that want to aspire to being more than dads n mums. Admitted this was a good move, it was also 50% advertising, 50% effort.
tax cuts - after tax increases (i saw it on my payslip)
rail system - for how long until they give up? Seems very "spirit of the moment"
interest free student loans - agreed kept me in NZ.......until it is paid off, but still pissed me off when i got no allowance but could have had unemployment benefit. Very bandaid cure to the brain drain really.
anti smack law (safe the kids) - good thing you cant sue in nz.

[enigma51]

working for families - for the poor, not the rest of us that want to aspire to being more than dads n mums. Admitted this was a good move, it was also 50% advertising, 50% effort.
tax cuts - after tax increases (i saw it on my payslip)
rail system - for how long until they give up? Seems very "spirit of the moment"
interest free student loans - agreed kept me in NZ.......until it is paid off, but still pissed me off when i got no allowance but could have had unemployment benefit. Very bandaid cure to the brain drain really.
anti smack law (safe the kids) - good thing you cant sue in nz.

If you dont like dont vote for them


seeems simple enough

[SPman]

working for families - for the poor, not the rest of us that want to aspire to being more than dads n mums. Admitted this was a good move, it was also 50% advertising, 50% effort.

rail system - for how long until they give up? Seems very "spirit of the moment"
.

Working for families is one of the better things they did.
Buying back rail is a good move, I reckon, even if they did pay a bit too much for it. With fuel costs spiralling up up and away, a vital infrastructure like this should be in the peoples hands - and if anyone says "private industry does it better", just go and jump off a cliff, because private ownership, demonstrably, didn't do it better!

Back on subject - as J D has said, if you don't stand up to legislation like this, which is slipped through, with nary a bleat from the media, who should be in the forefront of standing up for peoples freedoms, then, when you suddenly realise you have no freedoms, of the sort people have had in this country for 150 yrs, no rights, no nothing, except the "privilege" of working your guts out for nothing, saying nothing and keeping your heads down, knowing your lowly place in society, you'll be totally rooted! It'll be to late, then!

Governments are meant to serve the people, not control them, and if the population can't be bothered enforcing that point, then they deserve everything they get!