Have you used the Northern Busway on your motorcycle yet?

[Jantar]

So from that one of us could ride up the bus lanes - get a ticket - take it court - and get off?

That could be a publicity and profile exercise etc he thinks.

But then 2 weeks later they'll just put up the sign.

I believe that many have already got off simply by writing in and quoting the legislation. Transit (or whatever it is called now) do not want a court case and the resulting publicity.

[Grub]

I have never seen a sign on any bus lane anywhere that says, either in words or pictorially, no motorcycles. Unless the sign says no motorcycles, motorcycles are legally allowed to use the bus lane..

The practical application of that is as documented by the Welly CC.
- "Bus Lane" includes bikes as per your quote from LTNZ
- "Buses Only" excludes all vehicles other than buses and therefore qualifies as the 'sign' that you're referring to above. Buses Only means only buses.

[Ragingrob]

This is pretty confusing stuff...

As the motorway "bus only" lanes on the left shoulder only show "bus lane" signs also don't they? They don't specifically exclude motorbikes... I don't think. But as has already been said, people are being ticketed for it.

I can't recall ever seeing a bus lane sign which specifically excludes motorbikes/mopeds or cyclists.

Hmmm. Guess I'll just stick to lane-splitting, where the legalities seem just as ambiguous!

[Jantar]

The practical application of that is as documented by the Welly CC.
- "Bus Lane" includes bikes as per your quote from LTNZ
- "Buses Only" excludes all vehicles other than buses and therefore qualifies as the 'sign' that you're referring to above. Buses Only means only buses.

The "Buses Only" sign does not meet the legal requirement of "specifically excluding" motorcycles. To be "specifically excluded" then motorcycles must be specified on the signage.

"Buses Only" specifically includes buses, but doesn't specify any other vehicle, so the normal legislation applies.

[Swoop]

I can't recall ever seeing a bus lane sign which specifically excludes motorbikes/mopeds or cyclists.

Have a look on the on-ramps to the motorway. There is usually a picture of a person walking, with a large red circle and bar over the pedestrian.
There is also a sign saying "No pedestrians on the motorway - fine $200"

This sign specifcally excludes "someone" from "somewhere".

The "busses only" signs are inclusive and not exclusive, as required by the law.

[Grub]

To be "specifically excluded" then motorcycles must be specified on the signage..

Oh for gawds sake .... says yoU? The "Buses Only" has been tried and tested by the courts in Welly. "Only" was deemed to be quite a clear interpretation of the law.

[Jantar]

Oh for gawds sake .... says yoU? The "Buses Only" has been tried and tested by the courts in Welly. "Only" was deemed to be quite a clear interpretation of the law.

Ok, can you refer me to a defended case where this ruling was made?

[Fatjim]

- "Buses Only" excludes all vehicles other than buses and therefore qualifies as the 'sign' that you're referring to above. Buses Only means only buses.

Yes, but not specifically, this is implicitly specified. This is because the legislation regards a bus lane as for the use of motorcycles as well. Therefore to say buses only in this context means "Buses, motorcycles, mopeds only" The legislation is clearly written so that to exclude motorcycles from a a bus lane it should say "No motorcycles" i.e explicitly.

[boostin]

Anyone actually have a copy of the Transit bylaws that control the busway?

Also interesting that the North Shore City Council bylaws state that you must have a particular vehicle specified before it can use the bus lane.

[Sanx]

My guess is that there are by-laws that apply to the motorways authority that supplement the act.

Bylaws Act 1910, section 14, would tend to indicate that national statute takes precedence over bylaws where the bylaw is repugnant to national law. Land Transport Act is national. Transit's bylaws are not. Therefore where Transit's bylaws contradict (are repugnant to) the Land Transport Act, the Land Transport Act wins.

The practical application of that is as documented by the Welly CC.
- "Bus Lane" includes bikes as per your quote from LTNZ
- "Buses Only" excludes all vehicles other than buses and therefore qualifies as the 'sign' that you're referring to above. Buses Only means only buses.

Yeah - it's the same as Auckland City Council's documentation. Doesn't change the fact that the documentation is wrong and any ticket resulting can be fought and won.

Oh for gawds sake .... says yoU? The "Buses Only" has been tried and tested by the courts in Welly. "Only" was deemed to be quite a clear interpretation of the law.

Any proof? And who did the interpretation? A real judge, or some complete lay person sitting as a magistrate who conveniently ignores everything other than that stated by Officer Plod and the prosecutor, no matter how accurate it is?

Anyone actually have a copy of the Transit bylaws that control the busway?

Also interesting that the North Shore City Council bylaws state that you must have a particular vehicle specified before it can use the bus lane.

Transit Regulations:
Transit Bylaw 2002/19 as amended by this (scroll to page 56). If anyone can find a copy of Transit Bylaw 2002/19, I'd like to see it. Every place I can think of to search (NZ Gazette, NZ Legislation website, Google) comes up short.

Transit have also claimed that bus lanes on motorways are not actually bus lanes, but emergency lanes that are used as bus lanes during certain times of the days. But then they go and shoot themselves in the foot by calling them bus lanes in the bylaws themselves.

And again, doesn't matter what the bylaw says. If it contradicts the Land Transport Act then the contradiction is dealt with by Section 14 of the Bylaws Act 1910; the Land Transport Act wins.

[Big Dave]

So what is the conclusion drawn from this research?

[Swoop]

That there is too much legislation in this country.

[Ragingrob]

Lol imagine all of us being able to boost down the side of the motorway in the bus lane, that would be awesome!

Although if it was to be the bus lane on the shoulder I'd be a bit skeptical about all the gravel/glass/debris that ends up on shoulders.

[Sanx]

So what is the conclusion drawn from this research?

That it's perfectly legal, despite Transit's best efforts, for motorbikes to use bus lanes that state "Buses Only". However, you'll still get a ticket because cops don't know any better or don't care, and you'll have to fight it.

And then you'll have to try to persuade a magistrate who has little interest in ascertaining the truth and very little understanding of the law.

Your mileage may vary.
Not tested on animals.
May contain traces of nuts.

[skidMark]

Bikes cannot use it as it is a private road owned by the bus company...

...Yet the tax payer paid for it, and pays for it's maintenaince.....hang on....