Your nemesis corner?

[jrandom]

Now there's a point. I love uphill corners, but find that I take the same corner going downhill with much less confidence. What's the trick?

Someone should PM Robert Taylor and draw his attention to this thread for comment.

I distinctly recall reading that the physics of motorcycle suspension dictate that a bike does, in fact, have inferior handling and traction when heading downhill than it does when heading uphill.

Heck, it doesn't even need to be very complicated (ie, let's keep RT out of it, heh).

Think about it - you may not have ever tried this, but a burnout is a piece of piss to get rolling when a bike is facing downhill, but very difficult to start when the bike's facing uphill without the bike just pushing forward.

In other words, when heading uphill, you have more front traction and less rear, and when heading downhill, the reverse applies.

The implication for cornering are obvious: it's not just your imagination. The actual cornering ability of your bike when heading downhill will be worse than it is when on the flat.

One can only assume that MSTRS has never noticed this, and thinks that the problem can be solved with standard cornering advice for n00bs because he rides slowly everywhere and never does burnouts.

[MSTRS:Me]

Someone should PM Robert Taylor and draw his attention to this thread for comment.

I distinctly recall reading that the physics of motorcycle suspension dictate that a bike does, in fact, have inferior handling and traction when heading downhill than it does when heading uphill.

Heck, it doesn't even need to be very complicated (ie, let's keep RT out of it, heh).

Think about it - you may not have ever tried this, but a burnout is a piece of piss to get rolling when a bike is facing downhill, but very difficult to start when the bike's facing uphill without the bike just pushing forward.

In other words, when heading uphill, you have more front traction and less rear, and when heading downhill, the reverse applies.

The implication for cornering are obvious: it's not just your imagination.

One can only assume that MSTRS has never noticed this, and thinks that the problem can be solved with standard cornering advice for n00bs because he rides slowly everywhere and never does burnouts.

You want to rephrase that? In fact...correct it.
I think what you are trying to say is that a bike behaves best when it's COG tends towards the rear...as it would be going uphill or accelerating. Whereas decelerate or go downhill, the weight shifts forwards of centre and loads up the front and turns the handling into something resembling a bag full of nasty stuff?
What I am saying is...more weight on the rear tyre makes the bike more controllable.

[jrandom]

You want to rephrase that? In fact...correct it.

Yeah, I was just in the process of editing it. It's a pile of bollocks, but that's what you get when I'm on my lunchbreak and writing off the top of my head.

More rear traction... less front...

Nah, I don't think it has anything to do with the price of fish, really, does it?

Sounds like we need RT in on it.

Good escape for you from my fishing expedition, though, aye?

[Number One]

I love uphill corners, but find that I take the same corner going downhill with much less confidence.

+1

Going down is scary.....

[jrandom]

Right. Brain engaged.

I stand by my point that the physics of cornering downhill genuinely reduce the bike's performance limits.

You are weighting the front, similarly to what you're doing under brakes. My downhill-burnout example makes this evident.

So it is a suspension thing - we all know that bikes steer better once they're on the gas, but going downhill makes it very difficult to get the suspension into the same state that steady acceleration achieves on the flat. Turning while going downhill equates, in a suspension-dynamics sense, to turning under brakes, with the concomitant strain on front wheel traction.

My initial attempt at an example and explanation was crap, but the point remains valid: it's not just your imagination.

[jrandom]

the weight shifts forwards of centre and loads up the front and turns the handling into something resembling a bag full of nasty stuff?
What I am saying is...more weight on the rear tyre makes the bike more controllable.

We're both editing away like crazy here, aren't we, trying to figure this shit out?



Nail on head, there, though.

I think the reason it makes the bike 'feel' worse is the way that it pushes the traction envelope of the front wheel.

Look at the difference in tyre wear between a rider who's learned to turn under hard braking, and a rider who has to get their suspension neutral before turn-in - the front tyre on the bike that's turned under brakes is always way more shredded.

[Trudes]

Does weighting the pegs and gripping with your thighs help? I find it does.

[MSTRS:Me]

Good escape for you from my fishing expedition, though, aye?

*shakes head and spits out hook*
You will have to learn not to use barbless hooks when trying to land suitable victims.

[jrandom]

when heading uphill, you have more front traction and less rear, and when heading downhill, the reverse applies.

Y'know, I was correct - I just phrased it awkwardly.

When heading uphill at a steady pace, compared to being on the flat you're using more of the available traction of the rear tyre, and less of the front.

So you 'have more front traction available'.

When heading downhill at a steady pace, compared to being on the flat you're using more of the available traction of the front tyre, and less of the rear.

So you 'have more rear traction available'.

And front traction is what counts when it comes to getting around corners, so going downhill is the worst possible situation.

[jrandom]

You will have to learn not to use barbless hooks when trying to land suitable victims.

Or at least not to bait hooks with posts that are unintelligible bollocks!

[Number One]

I wouldn't like to have Number One try that on me.

you know you WOULD! ANyway I'm very selective about who I crush between my thighs...Trudes and Sully are my favs...

EDIT: NOT necessarily in that order

[jrandom]

you know you WOULD!

I hate it when people jump on posts and reply before I delete them.

[MSTRS:Me]

Going down is scary.....

*must resist*

Does weighting the pegs and gripping with your thighs help? I find it does.

NOOOO!!!! Weighting the pegs allows the bike's suspension to work properly, and it also lowers the COG. In fact, more heavily weight the OUTSIDE peg for best control and stability. I showed this technique to Chanccey and she lifted her game very noticably.

[Number One]

I hate it when people jump on posts and reply before I delete them.

mwah hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa

I'm bored and stuck inside at home sick...I got NOTHING better to get up to

[Trudes]

*must resist*



NOOOO!!!! Weighting the pegs allows the bike's suspension to work properly, and it also lowers the COG. In fact, more heavily weight the OUTSIDE peg for best control and stability. I showed this technique to Chanccey and she lifted her game very noticably.

So I should weight the pegs? Well, the outside peg when cornering, but both if I'm just riding down a hill? I practice doing this anyway, so just continue with what I'm doing? And being an ex horse rider I instinctively tend to lean back a little too... right or wrong?