"Faith Based" units in prisons.

**RantyDave** · 30th July 2008, 10:21

In today's news, a prisoner has been bashed in a "faith based" unit of Rimutaka prison.

http://stuff.co.nz/4636640a11.html

"For prisoners to qualify to stay in the 60-bed unit, they must have a minimum-to-low-medium security status, be drug-free and willing to explore the Christian faith."

WTF? We give prisoners better conditions in return for adherence to a particular set of beliefs? How the hell did society ever get to the point where this is acceptable? What's wrong with better conditions in return for adherence to the Muslim faith? Or Baha'i? Or a particularly strong belief in the spiritual relevance of the colour turquoise ? Or even Atheism?

"In summing up the judge noted RantyDave's recent move away from the Christian faith and a new dedication to a life of Atheism. Noting that a focus on the consequences of his actions from a human perspective rather than from the imaginary reactions of a deity would help him to see the error of his ways, he ordered the entire sentence to be served under home detention. With beer."

It pisses me off.

Dave

**yod** · 30th July 2008, 10:23

bloody good point and I wholeheartedly agree

It pisses me off too

**The Pastor** · 30th July 2008, 10:23

They have all different types of units in prison. Im not 100% sure but i think the faith based unit has one of the lowest violence stats from all the units.

I think the normal is about 3 or 5 assaults per unit per week.

I think the faith based one has less than that per year.

**Big Dave** · 30th July 2008, 10:29

Your Monarch is also the Head of the Church.

**yod** · 30th July 2008, 10:30

Ours?

yours too, my large friend

**Big Dave** · 30th July 2008, 10:37

Originally Posted by yod

Ours?

yours too, my large friend

I was meaing Dave singular, but aye - and not for as long as they will be yor'n.

**yod** · 30th July 2008, 10:41

Originally Posted by Big Dave

I was meaing Dave singular, but aye - and not for as long as they will be yor'n.

lol even if OZ goes republic, i'm sure the church will be more than happy to include commonwealth based heathen foreigners in their flock BD, you won't get out of it that easily

**007XX** · 30th July 2008, 10:42

That's ALWAYS been a huge pet peeves of mine...I mean WTF???

Once again, it gets me thinking about that american politician who does exactly what our gubbermint should be doing: make it tough for the bad guys.

**The Pastor** · 30th July 2008, 11:22

With all due respect you dont know what you're talking about.

In prison there are 7 rules.

The guards/authority are the enemy.
never show any emotion
solve all your problems with violence
always watch your back
mind your own buissines

Ive forgotten the other two.

what happens when you live like that for 3 years, 5 years, 10 years etc. Its all you know.

You get out of prison and get $200-$300 from winz and then are left to yourself. No where to go, no house or job to get.

While I agree that a tougher stance needs to be taken on violent crime, Its not going to stop crime. A whole new system might make a difference - it wont change everyone and it will be expensive.

Long jail terms dont change or fix people.

Now you're getting angry that people who actually behave in prison, stay off drugs and try to stay away from violence are getting rewarded (very very minor reward at that)?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the prisoners who stay away from violence and drugs have a much lower rate/chance of re-offending.

**Badjelly** · 30th July 2008, 11:29

Originally Posted by renegade master

Now you're getting angry that people who actually behave in prison, stay off drugs and try to stay away from violence are getting rewarded (very very minor reward at that)?

Perhaps you should read Ranty Dave's post again. What he's ranting about is this:

Originally Posted by RantyDave

WTF? We give prisoners better conditions in return for adherence to a particular set of beliefs?

**Steam** · 30th July 2008, 11:44

Originally Posted by 007XX

Once again, it gets me thinking about that american politician who does exactly what our gubbermint should be doing: make it tough for the bad guys.

It's a good idea, these faith-based systems do work, and actually rehabilitate criminals. Rehabilitation, which is "supposed" to be the point of prisons. Not punishment, actually.
Punishment just makes the crim harder, more violent. Come on 007, we all know our current prisons are just schools for teaching crime. They leave worse, more dangerous men than they came in.

Originally Posted by RantyDave

What's wrong with better conditions in return for adherence to the Muslim faith? Or Baha'i? Or a particularly strong belief in the spiritual relevance of the colour turquoise ? Or even Atheism?

In India they do Buddhist and Hindu programmes in their prisons, and they work. In NZ we do Christian ones.
I'm sure people from other faiths are welcome to work with Corrections to set up programmes, but without heaps of volunteers and effort and time, it won't happen. Christians have the resources of whole groups of churches.

**Badjelly** · 30th July 2008, 12:02

Originally Posted by Steam

It's a good idea, these faith-based systems do work, and actually rehabilitate criminals.

Evidence?

10 char

**Ixion** · 30th July 2008, 12:02

WTF? We give prisoners better conditions in return for adherence to a particular set of beliefs?

Uh. No. Actually, we give prisoners 'better conditions' for

having "a minimum-to-low-medium security status," (ie showing that they will behave and are not going to run off)
and
being drug free.

Which seem sfair enough to me
I gather the unit in question is one which attempts to inculate and foster social standards which are , manifestly, likely to lessen risk of reoffending.

There are other minimum security units for prisoners who do not want anything to do with Christianity, for whatever reason. The conditions in the other minimum security units will, by and large, be the same as the faith based one. The difference will be in the approach used to attempt to resocialise the inmates. If there were sufficient Muslim or whatever else inmates, and their churches were willing to come to the party, I have little doubt that similar units could be provided.

There is obviously a difference in conditions between a minimum security unit and a high security unit. As there should be. Any prisoner (more or less- I imagine there may be exceptions) can qualify for transfer to a minimum security unit - all they have to do is behave, be drug free etc.

I see nothing at all objectionable about any of this. Except perhaps that the prison authorities are rather too gullible , since on the face of it the prisoner in teh article should not have qualified.

**awayatc** · 30th July 2008, 12:03

Those Christian faithfulls.....they ended up in prison..?
I can only guess at what they where guilty off.......

I'll be buggered....

So I spose that one assault or so per year is when nobody wants to play altarboy...?

**Badjelly** · 30th July 2008, 12:05

Originally Posted by Ixion

I see nothing at all objectionable about any of this. Except perhaps that the prison authorities are rather too gullible , since on the face of it the prisoner in the article should not have qualified.

If he met the other criteria and said he was "willing to explore the Christian faith", then why not?