When stunting goes wrong...

[JMemonic]

The relevance is... where in all of those how to ride more safely books and pamphlets and videos and classes - does it say to stand up on your seat and pull a wheelie while on the motorway? I am pretty sure it doesn't.

Correct it possibly does not, but where does someone get the idea that its good taste to make statements about folks who have died either stunting or not in accidents that could have other factors involved. Regardless of what the books say that was beyond bad taste.

Stunting is safe responsible riding antimatter.

How, in the right place and right time its great to watch folks display skills beyond the norm. Time and place.

So why do people think it is funny and cool and "good skills" when they see a video of other people doing this on public roads?

See above and please go back to the original post and reread what my self and other posted.

I doubt anyone who has been killed whilst riding in an irresponsible manner would come back and say "fuck yeah, stunting's cool".

Hard to say really, I am sure you have heard the saying they died doing what they enjoyed. I don't have a line to the afterlife so I cant say for sure but they knew the risks, as you do every time you hop on the bike.

Potentially the skill to do a stoppie could be a life saver, what happens when you lock the front brakes and the rear wheel comes up those guys know what to do, I dont, oh and before you say that can not happen by accident ask around there are some here who have had it happen.

[Katman]

I am sure you have heard the saying they died doing what they enjoyed.

The only time I believe the saying "he died with a smile on his face" is when the person's found in bed.

[dipshit]

How, in the right place and right time its great to watch folks display skills beyond the norm. Time and place.

Well any public road is never the right place. Otherwise no one would care less.

[AlBundy]

Katman.

NO ONE has EVER made it out of life alive.

DEAL WITH IT! Be careful all you want but you'll still go out in a box...

Life is what happens while you're making other plans... Death is what happens in life...

[Katman]

I guess what prompted this thread was the realisation of how many on here leap at the chance to post in RIP threads while continuing to take the attitude that stunting on public roads is way cool.

[sinfull]

I guess what prompted this thread was the realisation of how many on here leap at the chance to post in RIP threads while continuing to take the attitude that stunting on public roads is way cool.

My votes are >>
No to carving through traffic on one wheel !
Yes to stunting !

I would be the first to admit my skills as a rider are just average, perhaps slightly above average !
I am far from being a saint as my avatar statement will attest to, i do enjoy riding at above the limits ! But i do know my own limits and you wont catch me pushing it in rush hour, splitting traffic to the point where it frightens those i pass taking stupid chances ! But give me a clear run down the desert road and i will take the bike to its maximum limit ! Or with a clear back road in front of me, i could be encouraged to pop the odd wheelie !
But I am gettin on now and that could have a little to do with keeping it seemly !
I do however wish there were more controlled areas, where i could safely go and practise this sort of thing, just as i wish there were more track days !
First track day i attended at manfield had a few guys doing their stuff in the lunch break ! It was impressive and i thoroughly enjoyed the show !
If there were such areas to go and practise, i would prolly set up a bike for stunting ! Same as if there were more track days, i'd have bike that was set up for the track and just the track, so to improove my skills there to a point where i'd be confident to race competitively !
But then i wish for a lot of things !

[Katman]

just as i wish there were more track days !

Couldn't agree more.

[dipshit]

I guess what prompted this thread was the realisation of how many on here leap at the chance to post in RIP threads while continuing to take the attitude that stunting on public roads is way cool.

It has always struck me as if people are only giving lip service with their "RIP, our prayers are with the family" crap that they copy and paste from one week to the next... then the next minute are saying "good skills!" to someone's video of them passing between a line of cars on a double yellow on the back wheel.

I don't think they really do care at all. It's all part of being a big tough motorcyclist isn't it?

[ManDownUnder]

I guess what prompted this thread was the realisation of how many on here leap at the chance to post in RIP threads while continuing to take the attitude that stunting on public roads is way cool.

People who risk death they have sympathy for those that get killed.

I admire people with those skills and I know it takes a lot of cash and practise to get that good. No problems giving credit there. What pisses me off is when people go stunting and put innocents at risk (no matter how good they are). That's just selfish.

When does "look at me, look at me" ever become more important than the safety of others?

[R6_kid:Me]

If an aerobatics pilot crashes and dies at an Airshow does everyone else stop doing Aerobatics for good?

[Sully60]

Ok Katman, I agree with the premise that stunting on the road is a bad idea. My rap sheet in court goes a long way to prove that.

Anybody who knows how I ride would attest to my affection performing such antics so at the risk of appearing hypocritical at least I know first hand the consequences of this practice in both the positive and negative (which I almost get the impression are reversed for you and I?).

This is obviously something you feel strongly about or at least you feel strongly for posting on KB about it. My question to you is apart from starting threads like these and posting in the stunting threads raising the ire of said stunters, what are you doing about it?


This sort of behaviour will never go away, despite, no sorry, in spite of the nanny state world which we now live in and I can almost guarantee that its’ incidence will only increase.(There are much bigger forces at work than either you or me here)

We live in a world of Extreme sports this and excessive that, you just have to look at the progression of freestyle motocross in the last ten years for instance.
I don't think that it is a too tenuous link to see stunting as its 'Urban' equivalent but being a sport that uses flat pavement as opposed to a paddock down the back of the Smiths property, guess where it’s going to happen?

Thank You Mr Ford for mass producing motorcars that went so much better on sealed roads so governments of the past created all these areas of lovely smooth road just so perfect for stunting

I’m pretty sure you won’t disagree with what I’ve stated above so my next question is, are you familiar with OSH procedure?

You’ve rightfully identified a hazard, no question.

As I said in my fourth paragraph I would pretty much rule out any chance of the first step: elimination.

So the next two options are isolation and minimisation.

Minimisation is difficult as it is subjective. Oh, I was only doing a short stoppie or I only did a ten o’clock wheelie, or only ten of the 250 bikes that went past did wheelies!

Isolation, hmmm, put them all on a island made of tarmac and let them all stunt until they’ve killed each other, I know the concept appeals (settle down dipshit!) but again this is the nanny state so the tarmac island will just end up having under floor heating and flat screen TV’s that you and I paid for

As I stated earlier I see that this is something you are passionate about, hell you must be considering the grief you get on here and I honestly admire you for sticking to your guns. It all means nothing though Katman, like this post just text stored away on a server in some deviant’s back room unless you do something actively in meat space to minimise or isolate the risks involved. I think there is some merit in your theory that no one should ever die in a road accident, 100% responsibility and all that, the question is how far are YOU prepared to go to make that happen? If you CAN do something and you to stop one accident or RIP thread and you don’t, does that make you in some way responsible?

How about talking to your local council or racetrack/driving facility about organising regular events on a closed road or other suitable venue? It may actually be cathartic for you to deal directly with some of the people whom you’ve shown so much derision (correct me if I’m wrong) for on KB. You’ll get at least some of these heathens to stop doing it on the road (minimisation) and if you get somewhere where the public can be safe when things go wrong then you’ve managed to isolate the risk posed at that time. There are lots of other things that could be very positive for motorcycle safety but I want to go to bed soon and I type too slow to add too many bells and whistles.

Like I said I’m no angel to profess otherwise would demonstrate hypocrisy in the magnitude of the average Supernova but I don’t want to impose the results of my love for pushing the boundaries on the innocents of this world.


Help me, please?

[Katman]

(I thought long and hard about whether or not to include the last sentence because I’m not sure that you don’t get some sort of pleasure from seeing someone suffer the ultimate consequence as a result of an illegal stunt)

I appreciate the time and though that went into your post Sully (even though the above quote couldn't be further from the truth and I suspect it was just a dig that you couldn't resist).

What am I doing about it? I'm trying to get people talking about the deaths that result from irresponsible behaviour on our roads. If we don't talk about them, nothing is learned and nothing changes.

As I said once before in one of my other threads, drink driving has become totally unacceptable in most peoples eyes over the last 20 years or so. Acting like clowns on motorcycles on public roads could eventually be seen the same way. If enough people want it that way.

I'll stick my hand up and say "I do".

[dipshit]

If an aerobatics pilot crashes and dies at an Airshow does everyone else stop doing Aerobatics for good?

Its people's own personal choice if they want to partake in that particular sport or not. Just like any other sport. Playing rugby, mountain climbing, motor racing.

However a public road is not a sports field. Other people using it do not wish to share in the added risk (and costs involved through ACC road user charges, bad press/public image, stricter policing and laws and such) of your extreme sport. It would be the same as an airline pilot trying to do some aerobatics he saw on a youtube video with a plane full of passengers. If he joined an aerobatic club and tested his skills at a staged venue, then no one would care less.

[Katman]

If an aerobatics pilot crashes and dies at an Airshow does everyone else stop doing Aerobatics for good?

Aerobatics is quite different. They are done in as controlled an environment as possible and if a pilot is seen to be performing stunts irresponsibly with total disregard for others they will be in a power of shit (as I'm sure you're well aware).

[Tank]

Its people's own personal choice if they want to partake in that particular sport or not. Just like any other sport. Playing rugby, mountain climbing, motor racing.

However a public road is not a sports field. Other people using it do not wish to share in the added risk (and costs involved through ACC road user charges and such) of your extreme sport. It would be the same as an airline pilot trying to do some aerobatics he saw on a youtube video with a plane full of passengers. If he joined an aerobatic club and tested his skills at a staged venue, then no one would care less.

ahhhhh fuck it. I actually agree with one of your post.


By stunting when there are others around - you are forcing your views and behaviour onto them - some people don't like that - I'm one.

As far as I'm concerned - its no different to boi racers speeding / drifting etc in their POS cars - they all think its perfectly safe - until it goes wrong.

How many of us have seen them driving around like clowns (normally with duff-duff music blaring) and think 'bloody wankers'.

Yet when someone does 'close to the edge' riding - its cool - whats the difference - just because they are on a bike?

On the other side of the coin - I love watching stunts - I cannot do 'em and I appreciate the skill others have that can - Id pay money to go watch (and have) - I just dont like it when Im right next to the buggas.